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Thread: startx user: But soundcard only initializes if use Display Manager {sigh}

  1. #1

    Default startx user: But soundcard only initializes if use Display Manager {sigh}

    I recently installed OpenSuSE on my gateway mt6451 laptop. I happen to have a strong preference to logging in to the console(s) and only starting a gui when and if I'm ready for it... I also strongly dislike graphic login screens, splash images, etc... So I was pleasantly surprised to note that somebody was thoughtful enough to include a hint about needing to make Xorg setuid to use startx in the console error messages the first time I tried to run startx...

    What I haven't been able to find is how to get my soundcard to initialize without using a Display Manager. But while my laptop's built-in soundcard works in E17 when I start it via the Display Manager, it fails to initialize if I use the "3" kernel option to boot to console.
    This affects my ability to play my music with "Music On Console" And when/if I run startx, I can't play streaming sound from {for example}http://www.thefox.com. Nevermind watch a movie from hulu...

    But if I skip the "3" kernel option and start E17 by selecting it from the Display Manager,
    I can then do all of those things, because my "HDA ATI SB" soundcard works

    What do I gotta do to get OpenSuSE to initialize it without depending on the Display manager???

  2. #2
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    Default Re: startx user: But soundcard only initializes if use Display Manager{sigh}

    On 2012-10-03 12:36, jtwdyp wrote:

    > *What do I gotta do to get OpenSuSE to initialize it without depending
    > on the Display manager???*


    Use a display manager... there is no way around it, I'm afraid. Most desktops are designed with
    a DM in thought, and some features simply do not work using startx. That's how things are.

    Worse: with some of the simple display manager some features also fail.

    (I learned about this with a bug I reported years ago: they told me to use a DM, and the bug
    was closed).

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

  3. #3

    Default Re: startx user: But soundcard only initializes if use Display Manager {sigh}

    Quote Originally Posted by jtwdyp View Post

    What I haven't been able to find is how to get my soundcard to initialize without using a Display Manager. But while my laptop's built-in soundcard works in E17 when I start it via the Display Manager, it fails to initialize if I use the "3" kernel option to boot to console.
    This affects my ability to play my music with "Music On Console" And when/if I run startx, I can't play streaming sound from {for example}http://www.thefox.com. Nevermind watch a movie from hulu...
    Did you try to start pulseaudio?

    Code:
    $ start-pulseaudio-x11
    or
    $ pulseaudio --start

    Quote Originally Posted by jtwdyp View Post
    But if I skip the "3" kernel option and start E17 by selecting it from the Display Manager,
    I can then do all of those things, because my "HDA ATI SB" soundcard works
    check the volume with alsamixer.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtwdyp View Post
    What do I gotta do to get OpenSuSE to initialize it without depending on the Display manager???
    First off, take it easy!
    It's not the display manager. It's the desktop which starts pulseaudio from /etc/xdg/autostart. If the desktop is not XDG compliant, you have to start pulseaudio manually or from the DE init scripts. I havent' used Enlightenment for years and never used E17. I can not help with Enlightenment.

  4. #4

    Default Re: startx user: But soundcard only initializes if use Display Manager{sigh}

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    On 2012-10-03 12:36, jtwdyp wrote:

    > *What do I gotta do to get OpenSuSE to initialize it without depending
    > on the Display manager???*


    Use a display manager... there is no way around it, I'm afraid. Most desktops are designed with
    a DM in thought, and some features simply do not work using startx. That's how things are.
    Nonsense!

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    (I learned about this with a bug I reported years ago: they told me to use a DM, and the bug
    was closed).
    This only means that it is more convenient to use a DM and stop asking questions. Both xdm (Xsession) and startx (xinitrc) source /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.common and run the scripts in /etc/X11/xinitrc.d. For XDG compliant desktops, you might have to export some variables, such as DESKTOP_SESSION. It helps with programs which evaluate these variables, as they won't be set if you don't use a DM. Users are expected to open X sessions from a DM. Therefore it is easier and everything gets initialized correctly. But you can of course start X the way you like if you know how to.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: startx user: But soundcard only initializes if use Display Manager{sigh}

    On 2012-10-03 20:26, please try again wrote:

    > Nonsense!


    gnome gpg agent does not work, for example.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

  6. #6
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    Default Re: startx user: But soundcard only initializes if use Display Manager{sigh}

    On 2012-10-03 21:43, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    > On 2012-10-03 20:26, please try again wrote:
    >
    >> Nonsense!

    >
    > gnome gpg agent does not work, for example.


    If you start the ssh-agent o gpg agent from inside the session, and save the session status for
    next time, the next time I got two agents, three the following time, 4 the next... the agent
    had instead to be started by gdm. Just saw it on one of my reports years ago.


    Another example:

    openSUSE 10.3 would refuse to hibernate when I used wdm. When I switched to gdm, it worked.
    Startx would not work, either. Bug 341605. No ConsoleKit support was the culprit.


    It is possible that if you know what variables to touch, what programs to start yourself, you
    can get it all working. Too complicated for me.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

  7. #7

    Default Re: startx user: But soundcard only initializes if use Display Manager{sigh}

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    On 2012-10-03 21:43, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    > On 2012-10-03 20:26, please try again wrote:
    >
    >> Nonsense!

    >
    > gnome gpg agent does not work, for example.
    Yes it does.

    Code:
    ********************************************
    /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc: Beginning session setup on Wed Oct  3 12:59:03 PDT 2012...
    non-network local connections being added to access control list
    /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc: Setup done, will execute: gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback.
    ********************************************
    
    gnome-keyring-daemon: insufficient process capabilities, unsecure memory might get used
    gnome-keyring-daemon: insufficient process capabilities, unsecure memory might get used
    GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/agnelo/keyring-4f7BnK
    GNOME_KEYRING_PID=4825
    gnome-keyring-daemon: insufficient process capabilities, unsecure memory might get used
    GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/agnelo/keyring-4f7BnK
    SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/agnelo/keyring-4f7BnK/ssh
    GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/agnelo/keyring-4f7BnK
    SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/agnelo/keyring-4f7BnK/ssh
    gnome-keyring-daemon: insufficient process capabilities, unsecure memory might get used
    GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/agnelo/keyring-4f7BnK
    SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/agnelo/keyring-4f7BnK/ssh
    GPG_AGENT_INFO=/tmp/agnelo/keyring-4f7BnK/gpg:0:1
    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    If you start the ssh-agent o gpg agent from inside the session, and save the session status for
    next time, the next time I got two agents, three the following time, 4 the next... the agent
    had instead to be started by gdm. Just saw it on one of my reports years ago.
    And you didn't come to the idea ... years ago ... to write an Xexit script like this one for example:

    Code:
    #! /bin/bash
    
    echo "running $0 ..."
    
    # terminate gnome-keyring daemon
    if [ "$DISPLAY" ] ; then
            DISP=${DISPLAY#*:} ; DISP=${DISP%.*} ; DISP=$(($DISP * 1))
            if [ $DISP -eq 0 ] ; then
                    if [ "$GNOME_KEYRING_PID" ]; then kill -s SIGTERM $GNOME_KEYRING_PID; fi
                    if [ "$SSH_AUTH_SOCK" ]; then rm -f -r $(dirname $SSH_AUTH_SOCK) ; fi
            fi
    fi
    and start the desktop (whether Gnome or another one) with a command like that one (at the end of your xinitrc):

    Code:
    f [ "$xsession_exit" ] ; then
    	ck-launch-session $command
    	exec $xsession_exit
    else
    	exec ck-launch-session $command
    fi
    where $xsession_exit refers to the script above.

    ?

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    It is possible that if you know what variables to touch, what programs to start yourself, you
    can get it all working.
    Yes, fortunately!

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    Too complicated for me.
    Maybe, but that's your own lack of knowledge in this case and not a bug. However I agree that you have to be good to do what you want with Linux ... and not only with Linux actually. If I wouldn't completely rewrite every script (such as xinitrc, Xsession and startx, for example), I would find Linux useless and boring. Linux is like a box of lego. You can build your house like you want. But try moving a stone in Windows!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: startx user: But soundcard only initializes if use Display Manager{sigh}

    On 2012-10-03 22:56, please try again wrote:
    >
    > robin_listas;2492960 Wrote:
    >> On 2012-10-03 21:43, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    >>> On 2012-10-03 20:26, please try again wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Nonsense!
    >>>
    >>> gnome gpg agent does not work, for example.

    >>

    >
    > Yes it does.


    It may start, but it does not work. I had many problems with it.

    Even now, with xfce: I had one agent serving an xterm with pine, and another agent serving
    thunderbird. A password in one did not work in the other (was not cached across), obviously.
    The combination of tools was wrongly starting two agents differently. Now only one is started
    by the login or display manager, and it works.

    >
    >
    > robin_listas;2492960 Wrote:
    >>
    >> If you start the ssh-agent o gpg agent from inside the session, and
    >> save the session status for next time, the next time I got two agents, three the following time, 4
    >> the next... the agent had instead to be started by gdm. Just saw it on one of my reports
    >> years ago.
    >>

    >
    > And you didn't come to the idea ... years ago ... to write an Xexit
    > script like this one for example:


    At the time I was using wdm, it was much simpler to run gdm instead, as they told me to do.

    Are you sure the name is "Xexit"? I have never seen that. And none of the people reading that
    bugzilla suggested to use that Xexit (I searched just now), and they were devs and maintainers...


    Anyway, I prefer to choose my battles, and this was one I did not have time for. So, no, I do
    use startx when I need to, but not for my daily use. The devs and packagers are intentionally
    not maintaining it and it doesn't do all it should do for us.


    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

  9. #9

    Default Re: startx user: But soundcard only initializes if use Display Manager{sigh}

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    On 2012-10-03 22:56, please try again wrote:
    >
    > robin_listas;2492960 Wrote:
    >> On 2012-10-03 21:43, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    >>> On 2012-10-03 20:26, please try again wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Nonsense!
    >>>
    >>> gnome gpg agent does not work, for example.

    >>

    >
    > Yes it does.


    It may start, but it does not work. I had many problems with it.

    Even now, with xfce: I had one agent serving an xterm with pine, and another agent serving
    thunderbird. A password in one did not work in the other (was not cached across), obviously.
    The combination of tools was wrongly starting two agents differently. Now only one is started
    by the login or display manager, and it works.
    What can I say? Whatever I say , you'll have the last word, Carlos. That's fine with me.


    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    Are you sure the name is "Xexit"? I have never seen that. And none of the people reading that
    bugzilla suggested to use that Xexit (I searched just now), and they were devs and maintainers...
    Absolutely sure ... because I wrote this script. You can call it "AstalavistaX" if you like.
    Stop thinking that devs and maintainers are the most clever people on earth! I wish they would though - because I would sleep longer, spend more time with my wife, make holidays in Granada, etc, etc, etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    Anyway, I prefer to choose my battles, and this was one I did not have time for. So, no, I do
    use startx when I need to, but not for my daily use. The devs and packagers are intentionally
    not maintaining it and it doesn't do all it should do for us.
    I wouldn't recommend to use startx either. I just said that it's not a problem to run the same scripts as Xsession does and compare the environment to export the missing variables. I personally mostly use startx, don't know why, maybe for historical reasons, but I setup xdm, kdm, gdm (and sometimes lightdm) to do exactly the same thing. If you ask me, the way you start X is irrelevant (OK, I know you didn't). And how do you start X in NX sessions? Are you running gdm, kdm, xdm ... or not even X on the server? And can you use a ssh agent there? Or did you choose other battles?
    Nevermind.

  10. #10

    Default Re: startx user: But soundcard only initializes if use Display Manager {sigh}

    Quote Originally Posted by jtwdyp View Post
    What I haven't been able to find is how to get my soundcard to initialize without using a Display Manager. But while my laptop's built-in soundcard works in E17 when I start it via the Display Manager, it fails to initialize if I use the "3" kernel option to boot to console.
    This affects my ability to play my music with "Music On Console" And when/if I run startx, I can't play streaming sound from...
    I'm ignorant about solving the first half (i.e. working on console), but in regards to the second part (i.e. getting it to work in X after you've used startx from console), have a look here: Back to Basics With X and systemd [Dave Reisner]

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