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Thread: Is it ok to remove packagekit?

  1. #11
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    Default Re: AW: Re: Is it ok to remove packagekit?

    Quote Originally Posted by zerum View Post
    If apper would be just an update notifier it were ok. But it locks zypp permanently and that is not good.
    That didn't happen on my 12.2 system. There was a transient problem with apper/packagekit just after iinstallation, but it cleared with the next reboot. Since then I used apper to install a mixture of patches for 12.2 and updates from Packman. with no problems, and will continue to test it. It seems to provide adequate information for that relatively straightforward job.

    So I'm not sure whether apper can all the things that can be done by zypper or yast.
    Probably not, and I don't expect to use it for any complex package management, just regular updating.

    All instructions I've read are written for zypper or yast. So a newbie will get into trouble the first time he is using zypper or yast because of the lock from zypp by apper and he does not know what to do.
    The "lock" works both ways, zypper/yast will prevent apper/packagekit from starting. It should only be a temporary "lock". I agree it might confuse a newbie for a while, but worse things happen at sea. The newbie can ask in the forum, if unable to fix it alone.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: AW: Re: Is it ok to remove packagekit?

    It actually seems like the first time packagekit is let run to completion it takes half an hour to an hour to get it's head on straight while refreshing and after that it only takes a minute or two to refresh.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Is it ok to remove packagekit?

    On 2012-10-04 18:06, zerum wrote:

    > If apper would be just an update notifier it were ok. But it locks zypp
    > permanently and that is not good.


    No, that is not true, it is temporarily.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

  4. #14

    Default Re: Is it ok to remove packagekit?

    Quote Originally Posted by consused View Post
    However,some users coming from other distros are familiar with having at least an update notifier on the desktop, and openSUSE now includes apper.
    Yes, of course.
    So apper is needed by some users
    Your putting words into my mouth. I said "Yes, of course" to your two points:
    • some users coming from other distros are familiar with having at least an update notifier on the desktop
    • and openSUSE now includes apper.


    So apper is needed by some users and I guess that is why the devs included it in openSUSE.
    Again, its not needed by anyone. Its inclusion, however, may be beneficial to to some users (maybe even many, many users! And maybe really, really beneficial!!). And upon those grounds, perhaps that is why it was/is packaged. I do not know.

    Not only does the statement "simply not needed in openSUSE" sound like an opinion, it's wrong since it has a role in openSUSE to satisfy those who need/prefer it. Instead you could have addressed the question directly as to whether apper and packagekit could be safely removed, as the other posts did.
    I could have done a lot of things....have a nice day!

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Is it ok to remove packagekit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler_K View Post
    its not needed by anyone.
    Your words, and that there is the problem. It's not your call (or mine) to dictate other users' needs. In that other thread I mentioned earlier, there is at least one user who believes he wants[(or needs] the simple approach offered by apper. Yes, it is included in openSUSE to satisfy that need.

    ....have a nice day!
    You too.

  6. #16
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    Default AW: Re: Is it ok to remove packagekit?

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    On 2012-10-04 18:06, zerum wrote:

    > If apper would be just an update notifier it were ok. But it locks zypp
    > permanently and that is not good.


    No, that is not true, it is temporarily.
    Thanks for the clarification. In general I prefer commandline tools for package management. So I don't like stuff as apper very much and remove them if they disrupt. If I understood it correct apper only locks zypp the first time running for a considerable time (why for such a long time? own database?). Thereafter the time apper locks is not significant. Is this correct?
    zypp it...

  7. #17
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    Default Re: AW: Re: Is it ok to remove packagekit?

    There can only be one tool active in software management at a time. Thus as long as a zypper command is running, any YaST > Software > usage will be blocked and v.v. Same for Apper. It was the same for the original notifier (some openSUSE levels ago). When it was active (once a day or what you configured it) to check for updates, it blocked zypper/ YaST > Software.

    Why Apper does this for a longer time directly after install, I do not know. I never install it.
    Henk van Velden

  8. #18
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    Default AW: Re: AW: Re: Is it ok to remove packagekit?

    Quote Originally Posted by hcvv View Post
    There can only be one tool active in software management at a time. Thus as long as a zypper command is running, any YaST > Software > usage will be blocked and v.v. Same for Apper.
    Yes, this is well known and comprehensible. Same with e.g. Debians apt: it can only be used from one tool at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by hcvv View Post
    Why Apper does this for a longer time directly after install, I do not know.
    That would interest me, too.
    zypp it...

  9. #19
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    Default Re: AW: Re: Is it ok to remove packagekit?

    Quote Originally Posted by zerum View Post
    I understood it correct apper only locks zypp the first time running for a considerable time (why for such a long time? own database?). Thereafter the time apper locks is not significant. Is this correct?
    Yes, you have understood correctly what is being reported, now by several users across openSUSE forum. Apper releases the lock when it finishes the update(s).

    Because I had already heard of the problem with apper/packagekit "locking zypp first time running", I didn't wait for that to finish. I just rebooted! After that, apper is working as expected.

    I used it again yesterday to apply two patches, at least one of those required a system restart. Apper notified me about that via its panel icon and also a KDE notification. A user couldn't possibly miss seeing that need for a restart. So far it's ok.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Is it ok to remove packagekit?

    On 2012-10-05 10:36, zerum wrote:

    > If I understood it correct apper only locks zypp
    > the first time running for a considerable time (why for such a long
    > time? own database?).


    Probably a bug.

    > Thereafter the time apper locks is not
    > significant. Is this correct?


    Right. And although I have not conclusively tested this, I believe that if you start
    zypper/yast right after apper has finished, they will download fast skipping repository
    refresh, because they are already refreshed and the database is the same.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

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