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Thread: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch to Linux & openSuse?

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    Quote Originally Posted by MirceaKitsune
    robin_listas;2492818 Wrote:
    >
    > It is the other way round. Linux has always been way more stable than
    > Windows. It has been my
    > experience since 1998, and I also come from the MSDos/Windows world.
    >
    > --
    > Cheers / Saludos,
    >
    > Carlos E. R.
    > (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)


    Maybe when someone is more familiar with either OS, it tends to seem
    more stable than the other because they know it better and are less
    likely to make mistakes (and can fix new issues more easily). Personally
    I have many problems in openSUSE that I never had in Windows, and I can
    actually list a few:

    - Finding the proper video driver for my ATI cards took *years* (until
    the geeko repository appeared). The radeon driver included with openSUSE
    was never fully stable plus it was unable to run any 3D game, while the
    proprietary one downloaded from 'AMD' (http://www.amd.com/) (proper
    distro and version) would also be horribly broken. It was months ago
    that I was able to run a 3D game in Linux for the first time. In Windows
    I just installed the driver, restarted and it worked... never had issues
    either finding or installing the driver.

    - Until openSUSE 12.0 was out, 11.x versions were unable to detect my
    hard drive during install (2TB SATA3 Seagate disk). A live DVD distro
    would see it just fine, but the installer would not. I tried
    everything... including changing modes, plugging my drive on another
    SATA port (and SATA chip) but nothing. For this reason I had to go
    without Linux on my main machine for two years until I noticed 12.0
    fixed it. Windows never had the slightest issue that drive.

    - My webcam does not work with any other application. I did fix it for
    Skype by using a special shortcut that launches it with a compatibility
    lib. My webcam is fairly modern (got it 3 years ago if that counts) but
    thankfully I barely ever use it.

    - My Samsung Galaxy S3 smartphone (Android 4.0) will not connect via
    USB cable on openSUSE (through either MTP or PTP). I'm working for weeks
    to fix the issue, and no one found a solution for me yet. I don't know
    how I'm going to transfer my videos and photos to my computer from now
    on. On Windows both MTP and PTP work perfectly well.

    - grub2 needs the "legacy keyboard" option to be enabled in BIOS,
    otherwise I can't control the boot menu. If my BIOS didn't have that
    setting I could have been left with a non-functional system.

    - Many applications not distributed in software repositories (which I
    download and install from their website) will not start without
    additional system tweaks. This is usually due to libraries I have to
    install from the openSUSE repo, but sometimes that doesn't fix it
    either. For MineCraft I had to manually download a group of libraries
    from some website and update the ones in the MC installation, otherwise
    it would crash. For the Second Life client I have a similar problem...
    but even updating the libraries causes it to not start (a few months ago
    it started up with openSUSE 12.1). This is one of the things making me
    feel quite unsafe in Linux... again this is a rarity in Windows. This
    does however look like a fault of the application for not including the
    proper libs.

    - Overall, I experience glitches every now and then around openSUSE
    (especially with KDE). Yesterday I could no longer delete things to the
    trash because my trash was considered full although it was empty... had
    to delete a metadata file to repair it. Today (a few minutes ago
    actually) I just fixed Akonadi spamming the systems with dozens of
    akonadi_agent_launcher processes due to abandoned entries that
    mysteriously got there. Otherwise I frequently run into small
    glitches... like a bug with the Grid Desktop type in KDE causing two
    settings bars to pop up when hovering the mouse over widgets.

    - Although this might be a matter of personal experience and opinion,
    there's a higher risk of making the system no longer boot in Linux. For
    example: A few days ago I discovered that if you disconnect an
    auto-mount drive, openSUSE will fail to start without any warning,
    unless you add the 'nofail' parameter to fstab. Although I did that and
    know how to fix it now, I was left with the impression that "removing a
    secondary hard drive equals your system being broken beyond recovery". I
    also read a post about an user being stuck in the recovery console
    because he modified some regional setting (something about switching to
    UTC time). Thank god I backup the installation often... but even so I'm
    worried whenever I restart until I see the login screen.

    By all means this is not to complain... just explaining why I see
    openSUSE more unstable than Windows. None of the problems listed above
    ever happened in Win for me (at least not in XP and 7). And I am using
    the latest stable updates, not experimental versions of packages. But
    again, Linux is safer than it used to be (and getting better) and maybe
    as I learn more those issues will be easier to work around.

    Hi
    Interesting read I only have a few games I (well our Son) play on
    the computer, I have an Xbox for the others....

    Not a month goes by without a person bringing me a computer that won't
    boot... guess what OS it's running.... it's got all my stuff on it and
    no backup....

    The thing is people need to feedback to the manufacturers of
    software/hardware, this won't work in linux, sure it might get rebuffed
    but over time hopefully that will change.

    Both laptops we have both support Linux (DELL and HP), so I don't have
    any hardware issues, quirks (wireless on the DELL, ATI gpu on the
    HP) for sure but easy to overcome.

    Data transfer, have you investigated bluetooth or ssh (sshdroid for
    the phone)?

    Stick with it and remember to have fun

    --
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
    openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.6-2.10-desktop
    up 1 day 20:45, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.07
    CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU


  2. #32
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmlewis View Post
    Hi
    Interesting read I only have a few games I (well our Son) play on
    the computer, I have an Xbox for the others....

    Not a month goes by without a person bringing me a computer that won't
    boot... guess what OS it's running.... it's got all my stuff on it and
    no backup....

    The thing is people need to feedback to the manufacturers of
    software/hardware, this won't work in linux, sure it might get rebuffed
    but over time hopefully that will change.

    Both laptops we have both support Linux (DELL and HP), so I don't have
    any hardware issues, quirks (wireless on the DELL, ATI gpu on the
    HP) for sure but easy to overcome.

    Data transfer, have you investigated bluetooth or ssh (sshdroid for
    the phone)?

    Stick with it and remember to have fun

    --
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
    openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.6-2.10-desktop
    up 1 day 20:45, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.07
    CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU
    Yes, the problem is Linux is slower to catch up on some hardware. I imagine it must be more difficult than on Windows, since being open-source and community-driven many companies might tend to let us "fend for ourselves and figure how to get their hardware working", while Windows gets most help instead.

    On the bright side however, hardware that DOES work out of the box in openSUSE (and most does) sure works well. Almost everything else runs perfectly fine without the need for additional drivers and configuration. I have a PCI Wireless adapter for WLAN, a tiny Bluetooth adapter on USB, an old (but still good) USB gamepad, a WACOM tablet, a Logitech Wave Cordless kit (keyboard + mouse, this has the issue I mentioned in grub2), wireless headphones with microphone (uses a USB transmitter) and more. All of those worked the second I logged in and still do without any glitches. Not to mention the integrated motherboard components (like sound card, chipset, etc) and even my USB hub is detected and named properly. In Windows I have to set these up manually and find a driver for each, while Linux simply runs them. Once the built-in radeon driver will support modern 3D games at the same stability and performance, video cards will be in this list too.

    I'm planning to see if my Galaxy S3 will connect through bluetooth and allow file transfers that way. Didn't know about sshdroid and I might look into that too. The problem is the USB connection with my device isn't established properly, and no MTP application can properly connect to the device. If anyone's interested my post can be found here: http://forums.opensuse.org/english/g...usb-cable.html
    openSUSE Tumbleweed x64, KDE Framework 5

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    On 2012-10-03 15:26, MirceaKitsune wrote:
    >
    > robin_listas;2492818 Wrote:
    >>
    >> It is the other way round. Linux has always been way more stable than
    >> Windows. It has been my
    >> experience since 1998, and I also come from the MSDos/Windows world.


    > Maybe when someone is more familiar with either OS, it tends to seem
    > more stable than the other because they know it better and are less
    > likely to make mistakes (and can fix new issues more easily). Personally
    > I have many problems in openSUSE that I never had in Windows, and I can
    > actually list a few:


    None of those problems you have are stability problems. Like clicking save on word and Windows
    crashing :-p

    Also notice the years I mentioned: I was a novice time ago, and Linux was always stable for me.
    Problems, yes, of course.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    On 2012-10-03 16:36, MirceaKitsune wrote:
    >
    > malcolmlewis;2492879 Wrote:


    > Yes, the problem is Linux is slower to catch up on some hardware. I
    > imagine it must be more difficult than on Windows, since being
    > open-source and community-driven many companies might tend to let us
    > "fend for ourselves and figure how to get their hardware working", while
    > Windows gets most help instead.


    Yes, Linux takes longer to catch on some hardware, not always. On the other hand, once there is
    support for a device, it stays longer. I know people that had to ditch their printer or
    whatever because the new Windows had no drivers for them.

    You have to be careful when you buy hardware that it does work in Linux first. And, if it does
    work, it usually is better quality hardware and also works nicely in Windows.

    > still do without any glitches. Not to mention the integrated motherboard
    > components (like sound card, chipset, etc) and even my USB hub is
    > detected and named properly. In Windows I have to set these up manually
    > and find a driver for each, while Linux simply runs them.


    Right, it is that way.

    > Once the
    > built-in radeon driver will support modern 3D games at the same
    > stability and performance, video cards will be in this list too.


    I doubt they will ever be.

    Not everything works in Linux. Right now, I have to use a web page that is designed for IE -
    and some things do not work in FF, not even in Windows. So is life. :-(

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    robin_listas: From what I heard, the open-source radeon driver will be on that list eventually. AMD is working on it too, and it's possible they might switch the current proprietary driver for it at some point. But that's many years from now if anything. The problem with this driver is that things like hardware acceleration and other basic features for 3D support are not ready yet. I heard somewhere that there's experimental support for such, but no one told me how to enable it.

    I have heard of cases where older hardware wouldn't work on Windows too, and actually had some myself. Certain hardware would require Windows 98 or XP drivers installed under Windows 7, and if they happened to be compatible the device would then work. Others wouldn't work at all, but it was rare. 3 or so years ago when I switched from XP to Win 7, my multimedia keyboard would no longer work because its latest drivers were for Windows 98, and using them was no longer possible after the upgrade. Linux deals nicely with this and wins again over Windows here. Best of all, even my HP scanner + printer hybrid works out of the box, and I can scan and print anything without a problem (and I just discovered I can see ink levels too ). But yes, before buying any new hardware I'll certainly ask if it's Linux compatible from now on.
    openSUSE Tumbleweed x64, KDE Framework 5

  6. #36

    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch to Linux & openSuse?

    Quote Originally Posted by MirceaKitsune View Post
    Windows 8 requires a Microsoft account to even create a local username and log into Windows.
    This statement is misinformed. You can create local usernames if you wish, if you do not want to synch your user data with MS.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch to Linux & openSuse?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardET View Post
    This statement is misinformed. You can create local usernames if you wish, if you do not want to synch your user data with MS.
    I remember hearing about this recently from someone else too. Haven't tested it since I have no plans to switch back to Windows (let alone Windows 8) but I'm glad if it's true.
    openSUSE Tumbleweed x64, KDE Framework 5

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 00:36:01 +0000, RichardET wrote:

    > MirceaKitsune;2482631 Wrote:
    >> Windows 8 requires a Microsoft account to even create a local username
    >> and log into Windows.

    >
    > This statement is misinformed. You can create local usernames if you
    > wish, if you do not want to synch your user data with MS.


    Indeed it would be a pretty poor enterprise OS if the only option was to
    create MS Live accounts to use it.

    Jim



    --
    Jim Henderson
    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

  9. #39

    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch to Linux & openSuse?

    On a side note to this general topic:
    I wonder how many GNU/Linux users claim not to use MS because of concerns over privacy, thus opting for Linux, but still use Google+, Google mail, Google Search, Facebook, Twitter, etc. Facebook is essentially spyware. Why do all you Linux geeks hate Ballmer, but you are willing to help make Google & Facebook investors richer everyday?

    Am I missing something here? Why is MS essentially the antichrist to hardcore Linux users, when most still use Google everyday and never consider how they might be misappropriating personal data? The mere fact they compile search statistics minute by minute should concern everyone; that data alone is extremely valuable.

    This selective numbness to various threats is so typically human - for instance, many of us are afraid to fly but rarely give driving even a split second of concern.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch to Linux & openSuse?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardET View Post
    On a side note to this general topic:
    I wonder how many GNU/Linux users claim not to use MS because of concerns over privacy, thus opting for Linux, but still use Google+, Google mail, Google Search, Facebook, Twitter, etc. Facebook is essentially spyware. Why do all you Linux geeks hate Ballmer, but you are willing to help make Google & Facebook investors richer everyday?

    Am I missing something here? Why is MS essentially the antichrist to hardcore Linux users, when most still use Google everyday and never consider how they might be misappropriating personal data? The mere fact they compile search statistics minute by minute should concern everyone; that data alone is extremely valuable.

    This selective numbness to various threats is so typically human - for instance, many of us are afraid to fly but rarely give driving even a split second of concern.
    I'm not one of those people myself. I'm mostly against privacy-related things like websites asking for ID over the internet, or any program nosing into something it shouldn't be.

    But there is a difference between privacy concerns in Windows and those of Facebook / Google+ / etc: Privacy issues in Windows are mostly over data being stolen without the user knowing... which is a fear I felt sometimes as well. On websites like Facebook however, the user chooses what to post, and most are aware that anything you put there can be seen by anyone. It is a willing choice. So people in the situation you mentioned may have privacy concerns over stuff they have on their drive, but feel safe using such social systems to post what they're sure is ok to be found.

    I think everyone knows by now that at least for Facebook, the government can spy on all data and everything you post there... and that was actually part of why FB was invented. I even read that the founder was connected to the CIA... silly information of this sort is easy to spread but I'm totally not surprised if it's true (which it probably is). It's an ugly thing, but since I post only what I'm ok with being public I don't care directly.
    openSUSE Tumbleweed x64, KDE Framework 5

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