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Thread: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch to Linux & openSuse?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    On 2012-09-09 16:16, brunomcl wrote:
    >
    > robin_listas;2484242 Wrote:
    >> I would much prefer to use Linux, but the last time I tried the TomTom
    >> refused to connect to a
    >> virtualized windows guest in vmware...

    >
    > Well, I bought a TomTom XL (model 4E.T0.002.03 / Canada 310) yesterday
    > and the HOME/mapshare app installed, updated and worked fine in a XP VM
    > under VMWarePlayer. I was able to update the maps, voices and other
    > stuff in the device connected through USB without issues.


    Maybe the problem is with a particular model. I posted about the issue in the vmware forum, no
    answers at all.

    > So perhaps it's a TT step in the right direction - or a slip in their
    > don't-care-about-linux policy...


    I doubt it. I now have a model from the 1000 series and it is simple not possible to connect to
    anything, the connection is encrypted. It is a completely closed device, it is not possible to mount
    it as a disk and do a backup. You can not save the favorites on a file on the computer, edit them
    with third party software... nothing.


    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith))

  2. #22

    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    Sadly... well not sadly cause Microsoft has had it's part to play in the computing world but, I believe most users will stay with Microsoft. The reason being is because it's not just a matter of home computing but also a matter of work. Businesses will not switch to Linux except for large applications because the average SysAdmin can not manage a Linux system. You will still be surprised at how hard it is to find a Linux admin so unfortunately people will probably still stick with Windows even if Windows 8 is a doomed platform/tablet OS.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    Quote Originally Posted by thilips View Post
    Sadly... well not sadly cause Microsoft has had it's part to play in the computing world but, I believe most users will stay with Microsoft. The reason being is because it's not just a matter of home computing but also a matter of work. Businesses will not switch to Linux except for large applications because the average SysAdmin can not manage a Linux system. You will still be surprised at how hard it is to find a Linux admin so unfortunately people will probably still stick with Windows even if Windows 8 is a doomed platform/tablet OS.
    For work computers it might matter less, since it's really a corporal decision as to what to use there (also based on money and what people know to use best). It is however sad that there are so few Linux admins around. I'm also curious about home computers though. Personally, I planned to switch to openSUSE either way, and probably would have at the same date if Windows 8 didn't do those bad things. But in this case, I would have surely not continued using Windows after Microsoft decided to put all computers using it in its pocket.
    openSUSE Tumbleweed x64, KDE Framework 5

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    Many would rather fight with the beast they know (Windows) than deal with the unknown (Linux).

    This fear keeps them from even considering an alternative and that has nothing to do with Microsoft specifically. This comes to play well before the ease of installing, better resource handling, breadth of available open source applications, secure and stable platform and wonderful community comes into play.

    This fear is best countered by eliminating the fear of being alone, that they are not the only ones trying something new and where there are others, there is help. Regardless of whether they use them or not it is perceived as potential help and that in itself emboldens the individual.
    "Linux provides freedom, problem is most users don't know what it is or how to use it." ~me
    Friends don't let Friends wear red shirts on away parties!
    Linux User #477531 | Danbury Area Computer Society (www.dacs.org)

  5. #25

    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonbite View Post
    ....Regardless of whether they use them or not it is perceived as potential help and that in itself emboldens the individual.
    You hit the nail on the head. The "perceived" help. People "perceive" they get help with Microsoft when in actually you get better, free, more timely, help with many Linux distros. Since Linux does not resort to mass marketing campaigns stretching the truth people think Linux is still something mainly used by geeks and nerds. Also I believe there are two more major problems: one is the actual idea of thinking and searching for an answer. A quick "Google" search brings up just as much info and more on a Linux issue than Windows due to the propritary nature of Microsoft but, why think. Most users and pass that, most college students don't want to think they want an answer. This way of thinking has been introduced by the second problem, "Baby Boomers". Understand when I say "Baby Boomers" I don't mean all 100mil plus "Boomers" around the U.S however as a generation that fought "the system" they have now become "the system". In the past this was fine because the past generation retired and gave wisdom whereas the newer generation explored new terrorities. This is not so. As "Boomers" work longer to maintain lifestyle and income they do what older people do by nature: stick to what works. This mentality stifles innovation thus stifles new areas of development and exploration; those new areas include Linux as a main source plattform for home and work. I believe this is another reason why many will stick with the "Windows" beast. Change is for youth, stability is for the aged and in between is management unfortunately management and aged are one in the same.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    I heard about the help thing... it's an understandable tendency to think that. Not sure if Microsoft really does offer such quick and exact support whenever you have a Windows issue personally. I learned to use the computer with Windows on it since I was 7 (mostly on my own), and until I got cable internet I never really asked people for help much. That and my installations of Windows over the years didn't... erm, have support included.

    But this has never been a factor due to which I stayed with Windows until now. Linux simply seemed more unstable (especially with certain hardware or finding the proper video drivers) and learning a whole new OS and structure (which is a different experience) was difficult. The learning is going well though... I can say I know enough about Linux (specifically openSUSE) to safely use it as a primary OS, and I'll understand more as I go. If I would have been lucky to find someone experienced with Linux when I was young (to put it on my machine while I was still being "formed" in the domain) I would have probably said this about Windows instead, cuz it would have then seemed weird and difficult to understand. Switching from Windows is certainly difficult, but if you have overall background knowledge of how things work (and ease at learning a different OS structure) it can become easier sooner than one might expect.

    Other than that, I can confirm I've actually gotten more support with openSUSE than ever with Windows. Partly because I'd never bother contacting Microsoft (especially about everyday issues) while here I join #suse on IRC and always talk to someone if they know of a problem. Only thing that slightly irks me is when I ask about an everyday issue and someone tells me "test it, post a bug or code a patch". I'm slowly learning programming too, and would love to contribute helping with openSUSE in some forms... but when an important component glitches during everyday usage (stable version, not experimental) it is concerning to think you need to file a bug and wait 6 months at best for the new openSUSE version to be released and hopefully have a fix if someone even got to my bug.

    This is the main thing Windows sadly has over any Linux distro... stability. BUT, Linux caught up a lot on this too in the last years, and to me it seems almost as safe and stable now (not quite but almost). On the other side, what Windows never had or will have is the freedom of Linux... including in technical senses. Windows is very much a lump of functions, whereas in openSUSE each component is a separate package and you can use different implementations and alternatives for almost anything which is fantastic. During the last months also, I've been getting very sick with having to go to each program's web page to update my Windows applications (download and run a new setup.exe for everything). With software repositories in Linux, updating feels like heaven in comparison
    openSUSE Tumbleweed x64, KDE Framework 5

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    On 2012-10-03 02:16, MirceaKitsune wrote:

    > This is the main thing Windows sadly has over any Linux distro...
    > stability. BUT, Linux caught up a lot on this too in the last years, and
    > to me it seems almost as safe and stable now (not quite but almost).


    It is the other way round. Linux has always been way more stable than Windows. It has been my
    experience since 1998, and I also come from the MSDos/Windows world.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

  8. #28
    dd@home.dk NNTP User

    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    On 10/03/2012 02:16 AM, MirceaKitsune wrote:
    > Linux simply seemed more unstable


    please don't confuse the trials, pitfalls and lack of understanding
    caused by being a new user with system instability.

    there are lots of Linux systems which have run continuously for _years_.

    the one supporting my caveat is just one example of many many many...
    (as far as i know the last time it went down was due to a server farm
    destroyed by fire <http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10279084-93.html>

    it was on line again in a couple of days (from geographically diverse
    backups) and it keeps on ticking.

    on the other hand, one can depend on opensuse.org going down far too often.

    --
    dd http://tinyurl.com/DD-Caveat

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    It is the other way round. Linux has always been way more stable than Windows. It has been my
    experience since 1998, and I also come from the MSDos/Windows world.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)
    Maybe when someone is more familiar with either OS, it tends to seem more stable than the other because they know it better and are less likely to make mistakes (and can fix new issues more easily). Personally I have many problems in openSUSE that I never had in Windows, and I can actually list a few:

    - Finding the proper video driver for my ATI cards took *years* (until the geeko repository appeared). The radeon driver included with openSUSE was never fully stable plus it was unable to run any 3D game, while the proprietary one downloaded from AMD (proper distro and version) would also be horribly broken. It was months ago that I was able to run a 3D game in Linux for the first time. In Windows I just installed the driver, restarted and it worked... never had issues either finding or installing the driver.

    - Until openSUSE 12.0 was out, 11.x versions were unable to detect my hard drive during install (2TB SATA3 Seagate disk). A live DVD distro would see it just fine, but the installer would not. I tried everything... including changing modes, plugging my drive on another SATA port (and SATA chip) but nothing. For this reason I had to go without Linux on my main machine for two years until I noticed 12.0 fixed it. Windows never had the slightest issue with that drive.

    - My webcam does not work with any application. I did fix it for Skype by using a special shortcut that launches it with a compatibility lib. My webcam is fairly modern (got it 3 years ago if that counts) but thankfully I barely ever use it.

    - My Samsung Galaxy S3 smartphone (Android 4.0) will not connect via USB cable on openSUSE (through either MTP or PTP). I'm working for weeks to fix the issue, and no one found a solution for me yet. I don't know how I'm going to transfer my videos and photos to my computer from now on. On Windows both MTP and PTP work perfectly well.

    - grub2 needs the "legacy keyboard" option to be enabled in BIOS, otherwise I can't control the boot menu. If my BIOS didn't have that setting I could have been left with a non-functional system.

    - Many applications not distributed in software repositories (which I download and install from their website) will not start without additional system tweaks. This is usually due to libraries I have to install from the openSUSE repo, but sometimes that doesn't fix it either. For MineCraft I had to manually download a group of libraries from some website and update the ones in the MC installation, otherwise it would crash. For the Second Life client I have a similar problem... but even updating the libraries causes it to not start (a few months ago it started up with openSUSE 12.1). This is one of the things making me feel quite unsafe in Linux... again this is a rarity in Windows. This does however look like a fault of the application for not including the proper libs.

    - Overall, I experience glitches every now and then around openSUSE (especially with KDE). Yesterday I could no longer delete things to the trash because my trash was considered full although it was empty... had to delete a metadata file to repair it. Today (a few minutes ago actually) I just fixed Akonadi spamming the systems with dozens of akonadi_agent_launcher processes due to abandoned entries that mysteriously got there. Otherwise I frequently run into small glitches... like a bug with the Grid Desktop type in KDE causing two settings bars to pop up when hovering the mouse over widgets.

    - Although this might be a matter of personal experience and opinion, there's a higher risk of making the system no longer boot in Linux. For example: A few days ago I discovered that if you disconnect an auto-mount drive, openSUSE will fail to start without any warning, unless you add the 'nofail' parameter to fstab. Although I did that and know how to fix it now, I was left with the impression that "removing a secondary hard drive equals your system being broken beyond recovery". I also read a post about an user being stuck in the recovery console because he modified some regional setting (something about switching to UTC time). Thank god I backup the installation often... but even so I'm worried whenever I restart until I see the login screen.

    By all means this is not to complain... just explaining why I see openSUSE more unstable than Windows. None of the problems listed above ever happened in Win for me (at least not in XP and 7). And I am using the latest stable updates, not experimental versions of packages. But again, Linux is safer than it used to be (and getting better) and maybe as I learn more those issues will be easier to work around.
    openSUSE Tumbleweed x64, KDE Framework 5

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Will the Windows 8 mistakes cause Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse?

    I don't think most people here count as "Windows users to switch toLinux & openSuse"
    "Linux provides freedom, problem is most users don't know what it is or how to use it." ~me
    Friends don't let Friends wear red shirts on away parties!
    Linux User #477531 | Danbury Area Computer Society (www.dacs.org)

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