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Thread: Can zypper install/remove a package with out dependencies

  1. #1
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    Default Can zypper install/remove a package with out dependencies

    Gday, i'm still pretty new to opensuse, and one package manager i really appreciate is pacman because of it's ability to handle dependencies but ignore them if i choose to. I've permanently left Debian because of it's inability to do this with apt or dpkg (dpkg can but not very well). Does zypper have the ability to ignore dependencies if i want?

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    Default Re: Can zypper install/remove a package with out dependencies

    On 03/01/2012 06:36 AM, knightron wrote:
    > Does zypper have the ability to ignore dependencies if i want?


    do you mean, for example, if you want to install ABC which has a
    dependency named XYZ and you don't want XYZ installed, can you still
    install ABC?

    sure you can do that..

    but why would you want to? because you _will_ find that ABC does not
    work as expected, if at all. because while _you_ have ignored the
    dependency, ABC can not...if it needs XYZ to work, then it will not
    without. see?

    its kinda like asking: If i buy this car can i ignore buying gasoline
    for it? (sure you can, but don't make plans to drive it)

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    Default Re: Can zypper install/remove a package with out dependencies

    There several reasons i may want to ignore dependencies. For one, not all dependencies are real dependencies, for example, sometimes i like to use gnome2/mate desktop environment, but i hate nautilus, i prefer xfdesktop and Dolphin, but nautilus is a dependency of gnome-session. (or at least in Debian; i'm not super familiar with Opensuse yet). Another reason. I may have compiled a dep from source for some reason and the package manager is not aware of it. Or maybe it's a package that depends on a lower version of a library, then i have installed, and a simple symlink of the library would work nicely; that way i don't have to down grade. Satisfying?
    So is there a way?

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    Default Re: Can zypper install/remove a package with out dependencies

    Am 01.03.2012 21:16, schrieb knightron:
    >
    > So is there a way?
    >

    Yes, of course zypper can do this and the rpm command can do this and by
    the way apt-get/aptitude can also do this on debian.


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    Default Re: Can zypper install/remove a package with out dependencies

    On 03/01/2012 09:16 PM, knightron wrote:
    >
    > Satisfying?
    > So is there a way?


    the Gnome desktop environment is a product of a group of developers
    independent from both Debian and openSUSE.....and, if due to internal
    dependencies as established by the Gnome developers it is impossible to
    install the Gnome environment without installing Nautilus, then you must
    install it Nautilus, or not install Gnome....your choice..

    *if* that is the case (i have no idea if it is a (your term) "real"
    dependency, or not) but generally whether you are using Debian,
    openSUSE, Fedora or whatever...you will have to agree to the
    dependencies as set by the originators..

    *however* since Gnome is open source software you have the ability to
    change the source code to remove all the "unreal" dependencies you wish..

    alternatively there are *lots* of desktop environments without Nautilus,
    try several of them..

    but, personally i would find it easier to just install Gnome and not use
    Nautilus....in fact i do something similar constantly: i installed KDE
    and that default installs KMail, which i have never used....and don't
    intend to...

    also you could install both KDE and Gnome and ignore Nautilus and always
    use Dolphin running in Gnome....see there are lots of ways to skin this
    cat....and, as far as i know all of those ways are also available if
    running Debian, openSUSE, Red Hat, etc etc etc...

    satisfied?

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    Default Re: Can zypper install/remove a package with out dependencies

    On 2012-03-01 21:16, knightron wrote:
    >
    > There several reasons i may want to ignore dependencies. For one, not
    > all dependencies are real dependencies, for example, sometimes i like to
    > use gnome2/mate desktop environment, but i hate nautilus, i prefer


    That's a bad example you selected, because Nautilus is necesary in gnome
    even if you never use it - because the gnome desktop uses it in the
    background. What for I'll leave as an exercise :-p

    Nautilus is a real dependency, in any distro.

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    Default Re: Can zypper install/remove a package with out dependencies

    Am 01.03.2012 23:48, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
    > On 2012-03-01 21:16, knightron wrote:
    >>
    >> There several reasons i may want to ignore dependencies. For one, not
    >> all dependencies are real dependencies, for example, sometimes i like to
    >> use gnome2/mate desktop environment, but i hate nautilus, i prefer

    >
    > That's a bad example you selected, because Nautilus is necesary in gnome
    > even if you never use it - because the gnome desktop uses it in the
    > background. What for I'll leave as an exercise :-p
    >
    > Nautilus is a real dependency, in any distro.
    >

    Agreed that this was a bad example, but the OP also gave a good example
    I sometimes run into myself.
    Compile a software/library yourself which is at the same time a
    dependency for another software which is available as a package.
    An example for me was long ago when I compiled my own versions of
    gnuplot which was also a dependency for octave without creating my own
    gnuplot rpm.
    Of course you can turn your own compilation into a rpm and install it to
    bypass the problem but not everyone including myself can do that always
    easily esp. for complex software.
    So it is then sometimes easier to install said package with lets say
    "rpm -i --force --nodeps" than to jump through all the other hoops.

    I for my part think that the original question is completely valid when
    used with care for such a use case.

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    Default Re: Can zypper install/remove a package with out dependencies

    On 2012-03-02 00:02, Martin Helm wrote:
    > Am 01.03.2012 23:48, schrieb Carlos E. R.:



    > Agreed that this was a bad example, but the OP also gave a good example
    > I sometimes run into myself.


    Yes, it is possible, but I don't use zypper when hitting that kind of
    problem. Even in your example, you use "rpm" :-)

    > Of course you can turn your own compilation into a rpm and install it to
    > bypass the problem but not everyone including myself can do that always
    > easily esp. for complex software.


    You can use checkinstall to create the rpm. It is not perfect, it is frown
    upon by devs - but it is an rpm and fits in. :-)

    > I for my part think that the original question is completely valid when
    > used with care for such a use case.


    I think that zypper prompts a question in that case and that you have to
    answer. But as I said, I don't use zypper for those cases. If I hit that
    case, I bail out and start up yast instead.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Can zypper install/remove a package with out dependencies

    Am 02.03.2012 01:33, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
    >> Of course you can turn your own compilation into a rpm and install it to
    >> bypass the problem but not everyone including myself can do that always
    >> easily esp. for complex software.

    >
    > You can use checkinstall to create the rpm. It is not perfect, it is frown
    > upon by devs - but it is an rpm and fits in. :-)
    >

    That is only sometimes an option since it creates a monolithic rpm and
    not the set of splitted rpm's one sometimes need (xyz, xyz-devel and so
    on since there may be others), so instead of that (I tested it several
    times) I find the classical way without rpm cleaner, but that's now a
    bit off topic. You notice also probably that I spoke about the past,
    since a few years my system never have an unresolved dependency since I
    create proper rpm's when needed, but that was a long learning curve.

    You are right that I used the rpm command to deliberately break
    dependencies not zypper. The original question included if zypper can do
    that and the answer is yes - even if its IMHO not a convenient tool for
    this.

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Can zypper install/remove a package with out dependencies

    @ Martin
    I'm aware that Debian can thanks, i mentioned in brackets in my first post "dpkg can but not very well"; i deem it to not do it very well because it won't continue to ignore them after the original ignore and will attempt to 'resolve' it every time apt i used afterwards .
    @DenverD
    Sorry, i don't mean to come off as a smart ars with my 'satisfied' comment; I couldn't think of how else to finish my paragraph. You made me laugh with the 'real dependencies' quote. I used that term, but am aware that a real dependency is one determined by the developers. What i meant by 'real' was essential ones.. Thankyou for helping
    @robin
    It is not a bad example, And i used it because it's a real life example, from my Slackware partition where i've installed Gnome 2.30 and then removed Nautilus to get as described and have a perfectly fine desktop.

    I am new to not only Opensuse, but rpm based distros. I've never used one; i've been using Gnu/Linux for about a year now, and during that time, it has been mostly spent with slackware and Debian. So perhaps my question should have been, 'how to install a package without dependencies'. Excuse my ignorance, i originally stated zypper, because i thought that's how one would go about it.
    So what i've got is:
    'rpm -i --force --nodeps' (Thankyou Martin)
    Many people have also said that zypper can do it too, but no one has actually said how.

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