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Thread: please add tapatalk forum app support.

  1. #21
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    Default Re: please add tapatalk forum app support.

    On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 03:06:03 +0000, MargueriteSu wrote:

    > it is a mobile friendly app.


    There's an updated version of vBulletin coming in the near future that
    has a mobile skin. Up until this point, the mobile skins have had a fee
    associated with them.

    So we will have a more mobile-friendly interface in the near future.

    Jim

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    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

  2. #22
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    Default Re: please add tapatalk forum app support.

    On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 10:46:02 +0000, MargueriteSu wrote:

    > 0. I really understand you difficulty to add and maintain new features
    > to our forums.


    Indeed, we don't have a dedicated code wrangler for these forums, so we
    try to keep things as "standard" as possible - adding customizations
    makes upgrading difficult, and the security updates are what drives it.

    > 1. Tapatalk Client is not free. but vBulletin plugin is free.
    > actually vBulletin itself is not a free software, so I think free or
    > open source should not be the standard of choosing supports.


    We use an existing license of vBulletin that Novell purchased for their
    forums. So while it's not free (in cost or 'freedom'), it's provided by
    Novell at no cost to us.

    > 2. Yes, most of the traffic must come from desktop users.
    > that's the common sense shared among any forum. but it does not mean we
    > should not improve mobile user experience with a single plugin.


    Fortunately, a new skin is on its way that's designed for mobile users.

    Jim




    --
    Jim Henderson
    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

  3. #23
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    Default Re: please add tapatalk forum app support.

    Quote Originally Posted by stakanov View Post
    @ken_yap: this is very intriguing to me as I love economics. Feel free to open a thread on this (maybe in general chit chat) and I will love to exchange with you on this issue.
    Done, see:

    http://forums.opensuse.org/english/o...on-mining.html

  4. #24
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    Default Re: please add tapatalk forum app support.

    At the very beginning, thanks you very much, all, for your concentrations and arguments on my tiny post. thank you all for extending it that deep.

    I almost forgot it's holiday for all over the world. and I saw that gentleman is a forum manager, so I thought it was a final reply.
    Anyway, sorry for the late reply.

    Like many Chinese's common words when posting on English forums, "sorry, my English is poor", sometimes what I mean to express may not be the same as what you see and think I was going to explain. if feel confused, please point that out immediately, so I can make further explanation in plain or stupid English.

    If opensource should not be the standard of choosing support, what should be the standard? If we choose user distribution we should stop to develop VOIP software and Asterisc and use Skype, Facebook on a Windows Client only. As there are more cell phone users then Smartphone users, we should not support access of apps at all. We should actually focus on GSM access. So distribution cannot be a support standard. Cost could be one. Underlying logic (if not ideologic) may be one. So could you be so kind to elaborate what is your view on what standards should be, as a negative definition does not seem informative enough to promote the feature.
    the "support" I meant here was just normal "support", not the way it means in IT "supports and backups" field. It was like: I support Sarkozy to resign and raise his children by being pure house-husband instead of leading La France into ruin. Just say it and leave it. as it is here: just install it, frequently update it, and leave it.

    In my point of view:

    1. To talk about "support", you have to distinguish and know that Proprietary/Commercial can't be "supported" if you're not a staff in that enterprise. they're different from opensource, because in their Pyramid Structures, there're no 3rd party developers standing between Company/Project and end users. You can't support as you always do in opensource. They do not welcome you, require you, promote you, if you did, they'll sue you.

    So support in Proprietary can only be done in clicking "send dumps". In Proprietary, support is a end-user level thing, commonly means install and let your box can have some features, not a developer level thing like it is in Opensource.

    2. So since only opensource has that kind of support you, who always stick into opensource, think it is, there's no need to talk the standard of "choosing support" actually.

    I think the standard of "choosing support" should be "good feeling and tastes" or "interest". if you find a project that is usable, but can't bring the feeling and taste you intend to get from it, you'll fork/support it. in opensource area, you can't force anybody to support a project that he has no interest in.

    And also, “choosing support” should consider others’ “good feeling and tastes”, especially end users’. Like you may thinks CLI is okay, amazing, brilliant; but as a girl with little knowledge of that, I think it’s totally a mess. Like you may think it’s formal or just the style to sit in front the computer and reply forum posts; but for me,
    It’s called “Happiness” if I can lay down on my bed, hold my iPad, ,surf our forum and say hi until sleep comes, instead of sitting in my study in such a cold winter, just to explain why I want to do that on my bed.

    COMMON MISTAKE IN LINUX COMMUNITY NOWADAYS 1:

    You did it in that way, because you are a coder! You can’t leave your desktop even if you’re not online in forum.
    But it’s desktop dominated era now, buddy, I choose openSUSE only because it has a more polished view than Windows XP. it’s the right truth. no one can judge users or kidnap them but follow them, or they’ll vote on feet.
    Yes, it’s your freedom / interest in developing it to any look fits your feelings and tastes, but if you do not want use it solely, you need to pay attention to End User Experience.

    3. You still can support by forking these VOIP projects. but just install and let you computer "support" Skype is no wrong or evil. at least your old grandma and your "end user" girl friend can use VOIP without any question like enduring the really bad UI or frequently crash when they occasionally use your SuSE box. Nobody can kidnap users to a certain application. if opensource and proprietary apps exist both, it's end user's personal choice, and I personally will choose opensource, and help it grow. everyone in this forum will do so.

    But if There's no such opensource project existed, why not temporary "support" a Close one?

    4. I hope there can be a Tapatalk alternative, on that day, I'll switch to it immediately. But since there is no alternative untill today, no less features but same purpose one, even no close in design mind one. so I post that post to ask our forum to enable it.

    5. I make a mistake in 4. there is "one", NNTP. although they are different in design mind, NNTP can do achieve some works Tapatalk does, like “viewing forums without a browser”. But it’s common sense that NNTP was designed for plain text and console mood.

    COMMON MISTAKE IN LINUX COMMUNITY NOWADAYS 2:
    OpenSource is not to reinvent the wheel, but invent a better wheel, while it’s free to distribute, aquire, blabla.
    OpenSource is not the photocopier/timemachine of Proprietary, but competitor and killer.
    There’s no need for end users to replace an existing good state wheel with a broken one, until broken one becomes better one. End User do not care the material of the wheel, but just the wheel.
    It’s developers’ choice to invent the new super wheel, but it’s end users’ choice to decide to use which one. we like new things too, we’ll donate and help test it if you say ready, but before you say it, we’ll stay on old one.
    Now truth prove 5 old wheel car runs smoother than 4 old wheel one, it’s another discussion that your Ford can’t install 5 while his Bugatti can, if I already have a Bugatti, why not help me install additional old wheel when your new one is not ready?

    That’s why I say OpenSource or Proprietary is not the core, because there even isn’t an existing OpenSource one now!

    To our forum, I still think easy to implement / good feelings and tastes should be the core about whether to improve end user experience. notice please,this post is (orignaly) an end user’s feedback, not developer’s.

    Yes this is an argument. So we should foster on what? On i-Phone non standards? Or on Android non-standards. Or Baidu, or WebOs? The problem I see is, if you choose a proprietary software supporting this feature, it will determine who is supported or not. Therefore you are giving support to a limited group but you are excluding others....not on your decision but on the basis of the vendor of the software. As this site should be as free in access as possible, I have my doubts about the implementation not about your statement. The statement actually may well oppose the use of the aforementioned software. You could talk to apple and to Google to implement an open standard, open source, royalty free to allow to do this. Open source plug-ins would appear at once, be assured.
    I replied you about device thing in previous section.

    Our forum will be the same free in access as before, but better if you have these device. actually computer is proprietary, you can have openSUSE tastes better on newer ones, but still usable on old ones. It should be considered that far and deep.


    But Chrome is not currently part of the regular openSUSE distribution. And i-Pad is part of an industry of which the former owner intended to spend billions to destroy open source software.
    I
    They claim to kill android. A certain Steven B. claims that too. And a lot of other industries get and got (the never ending story, SCO, you recall?) from very dark channels with the aim of destroying open source software, that is also this distribution. That said, if you go into advanced tab and you choose the forth button you see: paste from word (a MS closed source application, not contained in openSUSE and not open source). So it may well be that your argument is defensible through precedents.
    Chromium can use it too.

    DO YOU PLAY FLASH? It almost kills HTML5, but HTML5 survives. If Open Source is strong enough, we can kill Apple.

    But if you’re afraid to fight with, certainly you have no chance to win. We can’t hold an area empty, until OpenSource take it, it’s not open.




    No, not everybody is German. Denver AFAIK is not and is living in Denmark if he did not change residence. The fact is that in Germany there are far more cell phone than Laptops. It is estimated that every cell phone user has up to 4 unused old cell phones at home. Be aware of statistics. The problem is not the technological hardware base, but the tariff structure of the phone bills. It is also true that this forum is about open source linux software, currently running on Servers (always less), Workstation, PCs (main par of users AFAIK) and Laptops (growing). As long as no open hardware is on the market that does allow the development of a "cell phone linux" (and you have seen what resources are spent to avoid this recently), pure user experience is not a good argument maybe. Especially if you consider that a lot of users use nntp to access these pages.
    You face therefore potential fragmenation of user interfaces. All this requires manpower = financial resources. And licences in your case.
    A friendly suggestion: please avoid mentioning of nationalities to catalog individuals as part of a behavior or national reality. This is counterproductive and IMO not covered by the TORs of this forum. It is tricky, see dangerous, and can deviate attention from your post into unrelated flamewars. I do not feel that was in your intentions. But don't worry, I think everybody did understand this in this context. Still I do not feel comfortable reading it.
    Yes, I understand the manpower matters, but it’s a “Please” thing, not a “Do” thing. license may also a limitation, for I’m not a forum owner, I didn’t login to that area to see details. but I saw Fedora, so I thought It can be achieved.

    I did not mean to catalog, I saw openSUSE has DE as its biggest
    community(or not true? but DE translations are the most complete ones), I just want to mention there’re also minorities login here by mobile, really did not mean to say DE all use desktop, actually everyone did so. still sorry for the inconvenience.


    Both convenience and ease of maintenance have been challenged by this post.
    I hope my explanation can help you know what I was mean to say. or just help the discussion extend deep.


    Same for you (although the Chinese New Year should be well ahead in time, right? When is the date and what do we have this year as star sign? I love that "year of the" habit. I am a fire horse BTW.
    It’s 27th Jan. star sign is water dragon (or black dragon, not that black dragon in western) in Chinese. 2011 is wood rabbit.

    OMG! Grandpa! You’re so so mysterious! You even know Chinese Tibet Year Syntax!

    In Chinese Hans Culture, we use “Heavenly Stems(10) + Earthly Branches(12)” way, called 60 years a transmigration. Tibet use another Hans way, according to “I Ching”, by translating Stems to “five elements” and Branches to zodiac, which makes Water Dragon.
    It’s also 9H-BE(壬辰) year.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: please add tapatalk forum app support.

    Quote Originally Posted by ken_yap View Post
    It's not necessarily a drawback that some tapatalk clients are not free. The Chrome addon appears to be free. There are lots of people who are reading the forums from non-free software and platforms, e.g. Windows, Apple, IE. However my real concern is that tapatalk might be a proprietary protocol. This would be a lock-in and something I would not want to encourage in a forum that discusses FOSS.

    As for the future of web access, I think the mobiles already outnumber the desktops and that's the inevitable trend. For a forum like openSUSE, there may not be the urgency since presumably the target audience has a desktop. But I am not saying that forum access should be limited to desktops. I sometimes read mail on the move, so why not a forum? I however find the vBulletin layout unfriendly to space limited screens (e.g. last post link just next to the author link) so I've given up trying to read this forum on my smartphone.
    Yes, that's really the key point:

    1 vBulletin isn't mobile friendly.
    2 Tapatalk Protocol is free to use but proprietary. Really tastes bad for FOSS forum

  6. #26
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    Default Re: please add tapatalk forum app support.

    Quote Originally Posted by stakanov View Post
    Couldn't you use an nntp client to read the articles? Just intended as a general question as I tried to set it up and (a part of some design drawbacks) on the laptop, it seamed just a thing to easily integrate into a mail client or news reader. So, this questions is just by curiosity to see if it is technically easy and possible in Android and i-Phone. Anybody tried?
    NNTP Apps on Android are old styles, like 1940s. And I can't fresh any Chinese character on it. Japanese may be the same situation.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: please add tapatalk forum app support.

    Quote Originally Posted by pistazienfresser View Post

    I am skeptical:
    * Why should this forums support an (additional) non-libre/proprietary access software?
    * Who should test and maintain this feature (and also buy an application for Euro 2,49 in order to do that)?
    * What and how big is your benefit in using tapatalk with a mobile phone or tablet computer in comparison to using
    - any (mobile) browser
    or/and
    - any mobile nntp client/usenet newsreader/NNTP reader/newsgroup client?


    Regards
    Martin
    Hi, Martin,
    * actually I didn't be aware that it uses a proprietary protocol. I just saw it's free to add. and It renders better then webbrowser( with some rearrangement of elements maybe).
    * and I didn't be aware that either. I thought it was just a install and leave thing. sorry for that.
    * our forum didn't show well even on Opera. not eye friendly really.
    * not yet, I'm Chinese, another weird language, I can't refresh any threads in my language, and even my sub-forums' name on existing android NNTP clients. I tried all. for NNTP clients is really little in number.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: please add tapatalk forum app support.

    Quote Originally Posted by hendersj View Post
    On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 03:06:03 +0000, MargueriteSu wrote:

    > it is a mobile friendly app.


    There's an updated version of vBulletin coming in the near future that
    has a mobile skin. Up until this point, the mobile skins have had a fee
    associated with them.

    So we will have a more mobile-friendly interface in the near future.

    Jim

    --
    Jim Henderson
    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at openSUSE Forums FAQ
    Really glad to hear that update. thanks a lot.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: please add tapatalk forum app support.

    We use an existing license of vBulletin that Novell purchased for their
    forums. So while it's not free (in cost or 'freedom'), it's provided by
    Novell at no cost to us.

    Fortunately, a new skin is on its way that's designed for mobile users.

    Jim
    Thanks Jim, for telling me these happy things.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: please add tapatalk forum app support.

    Quote Originally Posted by MargueriteSu View Post
    [...]
    * our forum didn't show well even on Opera. not eye friendly really.
    * not yet, I'm Chinese, another weird language, I can't refresh any threads in my language, and even my sub-forums' name on existing android NNTP clients. I tried all. for NNTP clients is really little in number. [...]
    Hello MargueriteSu,

    It maybe my (few) installed Chinese fonts (probably I installed only the default or some that are needed for Korean) or my subpixel/rendering settings but even on my current laptop the fonts in the Chinese fora look 'like headache' to me - with openSUSE 12.1 and Firefox, Chromium or Opera. But on my Android Device (Samsung Galaxy S=GT I9000 with Android 2.2) they look better in Opera Mobile, Dolphin HD - only Firefox Mobile needs its time for rendering.

    I saw that only the forums.opensuse.org sub-fora in English, Russian and German have NNTP-'brothers' - so this is currently no alternative for Chinese openSUSE users (do not know if activating Chinese NNTP-'brother'-fora would be possible/desired).

    I am only German but maybe the Chinese forum moderators/users could help you - example given with choosing the best fonts for these (sub-)fora?

    And I think Chinese Characters are not weird but an ancient clever solution for a multi-language state/county/empire with representing meanings instead of sounds (in which aspect is e. g. English language in my [German] opinion a bit like the Chinese characters ) .

    Personally I see the F/LOSS thing not as something like an orthodox view of a religion - if there is a much better solution in using a proprietary way I would support that way - only it would be sad not trying an open way. Anyway I do not do the system admin work or am in any position to give the one(s) doing the work any directives - so I am not of the ones with an important opinion/saying in that matter.

    My former posting might look/sound a bit hard/harsh but mostly I just wanted to point out that the main thing/work might not in the installing of this plugin but in controlling and maintaining an additional function (even the NNTP function have often enough some 'hickups' - but the advantage is that it may be still running if the web front end is down)...

    I am hoping that the update that Jim had written of will fulfill your needs or wishes - at least a bit...

    Regards
    Martin

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