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Thread: DRM - how much control do we have?

  1. #1
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    Default DRM - how much control do we have?

    I read recently a little bit on wikipedia since i wasn't really aware of where DRM is applied and how restriction play a role in any form of media we consume.

    I do find myself in the opposing camp of any DRM since it hampers with the owners right to do whatever he chooses to do with the piece of thing he bought.
    Of course i was more interested because i like to game. But now i have to say, i give up on playing anything really on the PC. You just don't know what gets installed.
    Consoles seem to be the only choice since any DRM software is placed on that hardware.

    Also i was surprised to read, that if you own a ebook reader, you are limited too like print a book out or an article.
    Of course, you may be distributing intellectual property, but if i buy something i want to use it any way i like. That includes printing large passages of an book which is important to me. But i personally like to read the real books more anyway.
    Ok, i don't own a ebook reader and so can not confirm this. I just read it.

    There is also the practice of watermarking files or include metadatas that can sometimes include your creditcard numbers and your name.
    I am not sure how many people are aware of this. It was quite shocking to me.

    In conclusion i have to pass on anything digital distributed that has any form of DRM lock.

    My findings are not new, but its an eye opener and seeing other operation systems in a different light.
    Music got to a certain degree more liberated but movies are very heavily restricted. One of the reasons i just don't buy anything anymore.

    But i would like to invited my fellow penguins to talk about it. Maybe we have different perspectives and can share these.

    Btw. i can imagine one place where DRM can play a role which is the co-operate world. It may make sense there.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: DRM - how much control do we have?

    DRM is a problem in a wider area than just computers. I recently bought a Sony Bluray player. Usually with a DVD you put it in a it automagiclly reads and goes to the main menu and off you go. In this case it often requires restarting/reloading/open-closing to get the **** thing to just get to the main menu (that isn't DRM related just a **** annoyance). The DRM monster rears its head though when one loads a Sony DVD (IE from a Sony studio) into the thing. These seem to actually load pretty well but load to a series of adverts/warnings or other Sony inspired offerings which are impossible to fast forward or circumvent, and these are bought/owned DVDs rather than hired, inclusion in which I could almost understand.
    DRM sounds pretty innocuous, and at face value many might say "fair enough, they're just protecting their product" but, it has ramifications which we are only just starting to see.
    Apple have recently patented a DRMish innovation of interactive advertisement, that is, locked into your bought and paid for from iTunes bit of music will be a DRM locked advert, which will intermittently interrupt the playback with its message. If that isn't bad enough, to ensure you are listening to the **** thing it is interactive so after it finishes you must then do something (a series of button pushes for example) to show you have been listening, if you don't your device, iPhone, Pod whatever will lock out until you do. Apple anal control and DRM combined leaves them one Death Star short of truly becoming an Evil Empire.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: DRM - how much control do we have?

    AFAIK DRM was originally introduced as a compromise between Hollywood and Microsoft to allow MS to offer multimedia features on Vista. However, implementing it involved making changes not just to software but also to hardware which created huge problems for hardware vendors as well as people who had no interest in the multimedia.

    As has been shown since then DRM is fairly easy to circumvent and I presume that even the stronger versions which are now coming out will be circumvented in due course.

    One problem with something worldwide like the Internet is that digital rights are different in different countries and DRM therefore infringes on some people's rights by imposing rights granted in one country on people on whom legally they could not be imposed.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: DRM - how much control do we have?

    I think DRM infringes on my right a consumer. If i buy a book, i can do whatever i want with it. I can trash it, can copy it, can paint in it... whatever. But if i buy a book on a ebook i am more limited. That it is possible just to de-authorize you as a user comes on top of it. I just don't have any control over it.
    I don't have a problem to buy any of it, but i want the control of whatever i'll buy.
    Since neither technology will last for 50 years, i might have to rebuy everything i already own.

    If you circumvent DRM, i would assume you are breaking the law that is in place in the country you live in.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: DRM - how much control do we have?

    On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 18:06:02 +0000, JoergJaeger wrote:

    > If i buy a book, i can do
    > whatever i want with it. I can trash it, can copy it, can paint in it...
    > whatever. But if i buy a book on a ebook i am more limited.


    Arguably, eBooks are far, far easier to duplicate than the 'dead tree'
    variety.

    Jim

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: DRM - how much control do we have?

    On 2011-06-05 21:31, Jim Henderson wrote:
    > Arguably, eBooks are far, far easier to duplicate than the 'dead tree'
    > variety.


    Only if you break the drm protection, I understand.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: DRM - how much control do we have?

    On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 21:50:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    > On 2011-06-05 21:31, Jim Henderson wrote:
    >> Arguably, eBooks are far, far easier to duplicate than the 'dead tree'
    >> variety.

    >
    > Only if you break the drm protection, I understand.


    That's my point, if DRM isn't included in eBooks, it's trival to "sell"
    it without giving it up, unlike a paper book.

    Jim

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: DRM - how much control do we have?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoergJaeger View Post
    Of course, you may be distributing intellectual property, but if i buy something i want to use it any way i like. That includes printing large passages of an book which is important to me. But i personally like to read the real books more anyway.
    There's a large selection of books in the public domain that you are free to modify, copy and distribute in any way you wish, including many classics. Of course this doesn't include contemporary literature, but there's much to choose from.

    Free Books : Download & Streaming : Ebook and Texts Archive : Internet Archive

    Google is trying to monopolize pd literature in its own domain, but for now it's free and available with no conditions.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: DRM - how much control do we have?

    On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 02:06:03 +0000, chief sealth wrote:

    > JoergJaeger;2349005 Wrote:
    >> Of course, you may be distributing intellectual property, but if i buy
    >> something i want to use it any way i like. That includes printing large
    >> passages of an book which is important to me. But i personally like to
    >> read the real books more anyway.

    >
    > There's a large selection of books in the public domain that you are
    > free to modify, copy and distribute in any way you wish, including many
    > classics. Of course this doesn't include contemporary literature, but
    > there's much to choose from.
    >
    > 'Free Books : Download & Streaming : Ebook and Texts Archive : Internet
    > Archive' (http://www.archive.org/details/texts)
    >
    > Google is trying to monopolize pd literature in its own domain, but for
    > now it's free and available with no conditions.


    Well, and don't forget Project Gutenberg.

    Jim
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: DRM - how much control do we have?

    If you think about it philosophically, it is a know fact that every technology once introduced can be abused in order to be harmful to society. That is the case of a gun that is meant for hunting and then used to kill a person. Same has been true for the nuclear power that was immediately converted to a weapon instead to something useful.
    The DRM brings this with it, and the real issues are not only IMHO the fact that you are not anymore owner of the product you buy. The DRM owners just want to concede minimum rights, which by itself is already a declaration, implicitly they do consider you a delinquent and NOT a trustworthy customer. This probably because they are aware that the counter-value of their product is so limited that it cannot be justified any more to society, e.g. an DVD should have a very low cost (as it is a sunk cost technology) but still goes over the counter with a huge mark up.
    The issue becomes for me very very troublesome for another reason:

    1. digital rights allow for the alteration of book passages and existence of works, even after the publication has been bought and acquired by the public. History can be literally rewritten for the masses.
    2. the product can be eliminated of the customers reader without their consent (happened already)
    3. the way ebooks are bought make Orwells 1984 look like a fairy tale when it comes to profiling and monitoring political, intellectual and what so ever interests
    4. DRM can (and will) cause a loss of the knowledge of humanity. Who will be able to decipher a protected content in 100 years from now?
    5. The TPM (trusted platform module) if useful to protect the bootloader of a laptop with trusted grub, may be used by regimes to inhibit installation of software that is considered to be in non agreement to the "public decency", IP rights or prevailing political opinion.
    6. The load of showing one's innocence when pirated watermarked copies appear on the net is discharged onto the user and customer (good by habeus corpus and presumption of innocence).

    The list could be endless. And all this from an industry (like the content industry) that pushed through IP rights protections of decades (far over the lifetime of the artist) in order to protect the interest of the "creative". LOL, THAT was a good one. While they are still segmenting illegally the market (try to buy a DVD in Japan and watch it while you are in Europe). Big surprise country code. So this is another example of why I cannot fake to be surprised that people thrive for software able to eliminate "DRM" software from products or that hack the technology itself.
    And this is why philosophically I do not perceive the elimination of DRM measures as "illegal" as long as it serves to re-balance the aspects of ownership and fair use and does not serve to earn profit by selling the then copyable products.

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