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Thread: 11.4--someone in Novell, Attachmate, or

  1. #11
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    Default Re: 11.4--someone in Novell, Attachmate, or

    imho, someone in Novell, Attachmate, or influential with the board of
    openSUSE or the Community in general should grab up a bunch of
    developers and force them (since most have sworn to *never* come here)
    to look at the pandemonium caused when 11.4 is hyped to the unwashed
    masses and then delivered as broken as it is..
    This is soapbox. Still, given the entity of dissatisfaction:
    • could you elaborate why you think that 11.4 is particularly hyped? Every edition from 10.1 has been hyped the same way in S.u.S.E has been treated that way. "A big thank you to all the developers involved and for the work, yadda yadda. Now to be honest: thank and acknowledgment are important. But there are and have been a lot of developments that where unnecessary and and negative (IMHO) though....if you speak about them it is a "rant", you get to be declared the Antichrist and the "apostate of the moment". Since I belief it is true that discussion (a honest elaboration on what is good and what is not would be positive): could you specify and elaborate on the specific points you refer to? One by one to be able to get back to a discussion about what is O.K. and what not. "Hype before the release is part of the business - for everyone AFAIK"
    • the missing interface between developer and the forum is a lost occasion. However do they behave really different then some here behave? I do not count any more the "bashing" of purported "noops" on command line issues instead of giving explanation on the commands. It is nicer to open the virtual raincoat somewhere in the IT subway passage. A bit of intellectual exhibitionism I suppose. However the same people of this forum (who are doing this regularly even nowadays) are not taking into account the opportunity cost. RTFM and "you could have known by googeling" often is true. But why people don't? Because the have a job, using this software for the first time and because to get to solutions they need to loose an enormous amount of time to search. This is costly. For the developers this problem is exactly identical. To fix a bug through a forum is equivalent of working 5 times more or worse. Isn't it? Boils down on "time is money" so maybe the way to report bugs for so called "noops" should be enhanced and finding replicate bugs should be easier. All IMO naturally. Don't you think?
    • There are in OpenSUSE a few things that get worse every edition. I know that because I DO use on a fix PC the latest version every time. Since the introduction of 4.x the KDE environment has become much more fragile in my experience at least. And now I can finally have icons that are 90 degrees inclined (which enhances the productivity of work enormously). This is to be put on the website of KDE? So why do not create a kind of petition thread where members can sign for a statement and then sign over this statement with it enhanced weight on one aspect ot the KDE developers. Maybe then you are heard more?
    • I noticed that not very important issues do not get attention while important ones don't. So we are discussion the future of cloud computing as a project......but do still not have a sound stable and near-to-fail-safe Networkmanager and a sound and very elaborated WLAN setup. What is cloud good for if the VPN with Openvpn is difficult or impossible to set up? If the wirless card does not work at all?
    • The core of a productivity environment is the PIM and email. There seems to be a tendency to say: change client if the one you are using is not OK. This is nice, may be a strength of OSS but cannot be enough as an argument. Rather I would like to know why usability is not discussed with the user.....but is coming for the developers ivory tower. Now some people argue that developers are working not for users but for their projects......But then....why do we need something else then programmers using a desktop. Normal users can ...... use a pencil. I think users are important and make a desktop environment successful. The support for the major desktop environments seem to be there....but do we REALLY foster this dialog here? Is this what you are angry about? The ergonomics?

    Now there is a lot of change (especially in the graphics system) that caused issues. And there is a tendency that machines that are more then 10 years old with less then 512 MB of Ram do not run well on OpenSUSE. Scandal. But maybe this is a case for changing "for that particular machine" the distribution or begin to compile? Hardware wise I remember the times of 6.x forward when you tried to install SUSE, never made it and substantially (for lack of any community and in presence of a 56k US Robotics modem on the serial port (wow)) gave up, and you continued to buy the box more for ideological reasons then for productivity. Because you where NOT an IT freak or an IT student at the University. Now these times seem gone for me, I am often astonished about the good compatibility of newer hardware but that a distribution is logically about 1 year behind on new hardware is nearly physiological and nearly always responsibility of the producers of it. If you have examples and think that is not true, elaborate.

    Finally that is not a criticism to your post Denver. I appreciate this much more then the "cheerful crowd in sustain to the government brought in with a chartered bus".
    Regards.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: 11.4--someone in Novell, Attachmate, or

    There is a LOT of different hardware on the street, and unless large number of users support the milestone/release-candidate development process, then it is very difficult for the SuSE-GmbH packagers to ensure a new version x.y+1 works well with all hardware. It likely works INCREDIBLY WELL with SuSE-GmbH packagers hardware, but what they will have in their offices are likely an incredibly small fraction of the amount of hardware available. Ergo - users MUST participate to ensure the best possible release.
    OK oldcpu, you got me enthused to install 11.5/12.0 milestone from the get go next time.
    Leap 42.3 & 15.1(Beta) &KDE
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  3. #13
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    Default Re: 11.4--someone in Novell, Attachmate, or

    Now here's a thought for you DenverD: why don't you install 12.0 Milestone 1 and keep it updated through the release cycle this next round. You could really contribute to making the next release a good one. I know this because I've come to know your organized and analytical nature over the years.

    I say this to you: for the next openSUSE round, put your support where your mouth is.
    Leap 42.3 & 15.1(Beta) &KDE
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  4. #14
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    Default Re: 11.4--someone in Novell, Attachmate, or

    Quote Originally Posted by swerdna View Post
    OK oldcpu, you got me enthused to install 11.5/12.0 milestone from the get go next time.
    I'm not sure how relevant, but while waiting for the 1st couple of milestones of 11.5, I installed an extra version (in a separate partition) of 11.4 on my sandbox PC, and added the 11.4 Tumbleweed repositories (both SuSE-GmbH (?) and also Packman essentials). Thus far 11.4 tumbleweed is working nicely.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: 11.4--someone in Novell, Attachmate, or

    Quote Originally Posted by DenverD View Post
    ... and then delivered as broken as it is..
    It is not nearly as broken as that tone suggests.

    Sure, some people are having problems. Reading this forum makes it look worse than it is, because it is mainly the people with problems who come here.

    However, I would say that it is good advice to users with minimal technical background, to avoid jumping early into a new software version (whether linux, windows, etc). Better to allow the more experienced users to try it first. The advice for the average user should be "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
    openSUSE Leap 15.1; KDE Plasma 5;

  6. #16
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    Default Απ: 11.4--someone in Novell, Attachmate, or

    Quote Originally Posted by DenverD
    sure, some folks are very very happy, and i'm sure there are lots and
    lots of happy folks we are not hearing from in the forum...but, wow!
    the number and level of problems thrown up by 11.4 is really
    amazing...i don't think i've seen this level before....well, maybe
    11.0 was close...
    So far I have not problems with 11.4 in my old experimental laptop. But I am afraid to upgrade to my desktop because of zypper dup bug. Anyway this problem must be fixed so many and many users will upgrade.
    Πάντα Φιλικά, Στάμος.
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    Γλώσσες Προγραμματισμού: C++, Qt developing.
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  7. #17

    Default Re: 11.4--someone in Novell, Attachmate, or

    I never understand all this complaining about each new OpenSuse release; don't upgrade but once every 12-18 months, if upgrades are too much trouble. So far I have found 11.4 to be better than 11.3, which was better than 11.2, which was better than 11.1, etc. Overall 11.4 is an excellent alternative to Win. 7, and with VMware installed, one can run Win. 7 effortlessly as well, while still maintaining a fully operational GNU/Linux system in a total of 2 Gigs of physical RAM. And the total cost for 11.4, even if one buys it, is less than a dinner for two at any NYC midtown restaurant.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: 11.4--someone in Novell, Attachmate, or

    On 2011-03-19 14:36, stamostolias wrote:

    > I am afraid to upgrade to my desktop because of zypper dup bug. Anyway
    > this problem must be fixed so many and many users will upgrade.


    It was fixed before release.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar)

  9. #19
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    Default Re: 11.4--someone in Novell, Attachmate, or

    Let me throw another twist on this. I did upgrade to 11.4 on my laptop, my wifes, laptop and my daughters computer, and all is fine. In fact it went so well I got bored with it. The upgrade on my laptop went flawlessly. On my daughters it didn't like the upgrade due to the nvidia proprietary configuration, even though I cleared that out, so a fresh install. My wifes laptop, the upgrade complained of a few packages that didn't install, but still booted fine, and I installed them anyway from a working system. So in my boredom, I decided to go to Gentoo. 11.4, in my opinion works to well. At least for me. I got bored. I've been needing a challenge anyway. So you could say this is high praise to openSUSE in the release of 11.4. It works to good.

  10. #20

    Default Re: 11.4--someone in Novell, Attachmate, or

    yeah - it was boring, other than needing 2 boots there wasn't anything to fix (iirc), but not so boring I'm gonna futz with Gentoo

    Other then my desktop not suspending to ram, which it didn't in 11.3 there was nothing to fix - it was boring
    openSUSE Leap 42.1 x64, Plasma 5 & KDE 4.14.x, pretty current proprietary Nvidia drivers (self-compiled)

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