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Thread: Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

  1. #101

    Default Re: Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcpu View Post
    Setting up the network scanner under Linux (using YaST and HP-Setup) was easy and took a few minutes to setup, and then 5 minutes to train on xsane.

    Setting up the US printer under MS-Windows under Virtual Box was easy. But setting up the HP network printer under MS-Windows under virtual box was a pain, albeit we succeeded in the end. We had to install something like 350 MB of HP bloated software in Windows, and then tune the Zone Alarm firewall settings in Windows ... and after a few attempts ( > 1 hour) we suceeded. Network printing in Windows is IMHO more painful than in Linux, IF one knows what they are doing in Linux.

    We never did succeed in getting the Network scanning to work in Windows under Virtual Box with a Linux host. The problem here is the Virtual Box ip address range is bizarre relative to our LAN IP-address range. I'm not convinced its worth the effort to research and try to fix.
    The reason the IP range is bizarre is because by default VirtualBox uses NAT. If you go into the network settings for the VM and change "Attached To" from "NAT" to "Bridged Adapter" then your VM will be connected directly to your network, just as if it were a real PC.

  2. #102

    Default Re: Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Honea View Post
    oldcpu wrote:

    > I'm not convinced winXP can take full advantage of multiple cores and I
    > noted that to her.


    I suspect you are more correct than you know. I have no experience with
    anything past XP, but MS scheduling with multi-cores at least as recently as
    that is ****-poor unless all the apps running did some handwaving in the
    background - they basically used a core-per-process which essentially meant
    the entire process, including threads, ran on a single core. We got into
    this topic when IBM pretty much orphaned OS/2 and management wanted to move
    to MS. OS/2 ran circles around Win with heavy database usage and we were
    able to show that the IBM scheduler's tactic of spreading threads as well as
    processes across cores was responsible. Supposedly, hyper-threading helped
    but even there the apps had to be tuned for multi-core use. I'm not that up
    to date on what Linux does the Win approach means that more programs can run
    concurrently but load leveling between cores is pretty bad. In XP, bring up
    the taskmanager and watch the core activity for all cores - that might be
    revealing. I predict that you'll see some cores loafing while others are
    maxed out when the slowdowns pop up.

    --
    Will Honea
    One thing that may be happening is that despite giving the VM more cores, XP might not actually be using them. If you check the performance tab in Task Manager as suggested by Will Honea see how many CPU graphs show up. There should be one for each CPU Windows is using. If you installed Windows with only 1 core then it probably installed the Uniprocessor kernel. I think you can switch to the multiproc kernel, but it's tricky.

  3. #103
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    Default Απ: Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcpu View Post
    My wife decided she wants a new desktop PC , and so earlier today she ordered one over the internet.

    Her OLD desktop PC that she is replacing is a 32-bit AMD Sempon-2600 w/1GB (Epox EP-8K7A motherboard) w/AGP ATI RV280 (Radeon-9200Pro) graphics [age-4+ years]. It works well, but my wife wants something faster. We will likely remove the atheros wireless card (a DLink) from that old PC and also remove the extra 300GB hard drive from this old PC, and then give the PC away as a gift to our maid. The wireless card and hard drive may go in my wife's new PC (TBC).

    The new PC she ordered looks pretty neat:
    • Motherboard: Asus P7H55-M, H55
    • CPU: Core i7-860, 4 x 2.8GHz
    • 6 GB RAM (DDR3-1333)
    • Graphic card: GeForce G 210, 512MB RAM
    • 500 GB SATA II 7200rpm (16MB cache) hard drive
    • DVD burner
    • Powersupply - 550 watts

    She wanted a cheaper PC (with some obscure motherboard) but the Asus was only a few Euro's more, and I found users noting this Asus motherboard worked for them in Ubuntu, so I had her upgrade to the Asus P7H55-M, H55. The same for the graphics, she had originally looked at a Core i5 and was considering an Intel GMA500, which is a nice chipset but its Linux support is poor compared to what MS-Windoze users get, ... and then she considered an ATI Radeon 5450 (also a nice card under MS-Windows but no HD support under Linux), so I manged to talk her into going for a Core i7 with the nVidia GeForce G210 (and not pay much more). My research suggests the G210 should work with the "nv", "nouveau" and proprietary "nvidia" graphic drivers. The G210 may not be as capable as the Intel GMA500 nor the ATI Radeon 5450, but it is more compatible with Linux.

    The PC has no operating system and I anticipate it will come with a blank unformatted hard drive.

    My wife noted the PC should arrive in a week or two.

    My wife is now thinking she will carve up the hard drive like this:
    • sda1 - 150 GB NTFS data partition (eventually she may installWin7 or WinXP here)
    • sda2 - 150 GB NTFS data partition (this will always be for data)
    • sda3 - 200 GB extended
    • sda4 - 2 GB swap
    • sda5 - 25 GB " / " (for openSUSE-11.3)
    • sda6 - 170 GB (approx) /home (for openSUSE-11.3)
    She noted she is also thinking of installing 32-bit winXP in Virtual Box under 64-bit openSUSE-11.3 in the 170 GB /home. She is planning on allocating the Virtual Box client/virtual winXP about 2.5 GB of the PC's 6GB RAM, and probably give it the capability to expand to about 1/2 of the 170GB partition.

    But the fact she is even considering putting openSUSE-11.3 on first, is interesting (and encouraging) to me.

    Since she plans to put MS windows on later , I need to brush up on my openSUSE MBR restoration techniques, as this (Linux installed first) is not the nominal way to setup a new PC.

    It should be interesting.
    Now I see your article.
    That is good news for your wife. But I don't like the processor which is intel and graphics card which is nvidia. I prefer amd products.Sorry for the rude response but would not be better with amd processor that is cheap and better than an intel processor? It is also and graphics card it should be ati radeon.
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  4. #104
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    Default Re: Απ: Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by stamostolias View Post
    Now I see your article.
    That is good news for your wife. But I don't like the processor which is intel and graphics card which is nvidia. I prefer amd products.Sorry for the rude response but would not be better with amd processor that is cheap and better than an intel processor? It is also and graphics card it should be ati radeon.
    For laptop PCs, I have a preference for ATI graphics, not because of cost, but because of reliability and xrandr support. nVidia had massive quality problems with their GPU's, which affected laptops in particular (due to thermal reasons, from what I have read). Plus nVidia's support for xrandr (and hence easy remote driving of an external display) is not as good as ATI's (IMHO). Thus when I was looking at a laptop, and trying to decide between nVidia or ATI graphics, I chose ATI.

    But for desktop PC's, where it is easy to swap in a replacement graphic card, I significantly prefer nVidia. The reason? Despite the ATI opensource driver being very good (compared to the nVidia open source driver), the ATI proprietary Linux driver has always lagged the nVidia graphic driver. And lagged significantly. I mean REALLY REALLY REALLY significantly lagged. ATI have NOT provided support for offloading of the video processing to the GPU in Linux, even though they have in Windows (through AVIVO). However nVidia have done so with VDPAU (equivalent to Windows Pure Video). IMHO as a user of High Definition (1920x1080 @ 25MB/sec bit rate) videos, this is totally inexcuseable on ATI's part. Plus ATI graphic driver's typically lag new hardware and lag new kernel release, forcing users with new Linux distributions to often go 6 months or more with no proprietary graphic driver being available. That is also inexcuseable.

    I will live with that graphic card driver tardiness of ATI in a laptop. I will NOT in a desktop.

    I should also note that nVidia proprietary driver support for legacy hardware is SIGNIFICANLTY superior to that of ATI. And I truely mean SIGNIFICANLTLY. ATI is not even in the same ball park when it comes to legacy driver support. ATI support for legacy hardware is not pathetic. It is non existant. Truely horrible.

    As you can see, I too have strong opinions and they are not the same as yours.

    Reference the processor, when it comes to processing high definition videos, AMD has lagged Intel. For the longest time AMD realistically had nothing as good as the Core i7. So I don't agree with your CPU assessment.

    I was an AMD cpu fan for the longest time, and we still have an athlon-1100 based PC, and an althon-2800 based PC in our household, plus we recently gave away to our maid a nice sempron-2600 based PC. But since then, we have switched to Intel PCs because AMD was lagging. Again, I have strong views also on this.

    My apologies too, if my disagreement appears not as tactful, although I did try to be.
    Last edited by oldcpu; 21-Dec-2010 at 06:36.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Απ: Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by stamostolias View Post
    But I don't like the processor which is intel and graphics card which is nvidia. I prefer amd products.Sorry for the rude response but would not be better with amd processor that is cheap and better than an intel processor?
    ... wrt the Intel vs AMD CPU, you may have a point. I took a look again at the web site from where my wife purchased her PC (Klatt-IT ->Ihr Spezialist im IT Bereich) and if one navigates the German menu's so as to custom build a PC, I think if one choses the AMD AM3 architecture (instead of the Intel 1156 or Intel 1366 architectures) one can likely construct an equivalent performance PC for a cheaper price.

    However I have not changed my view on Graphic cards, as that is not price driven. ATI's proprietary driver support for Linux is simply not up to the standard of nVidia's and for me on a desktop PC where High Definition Video playback is critical, and where installing a new Linux version (with a new kernel) is likely, ATI is pretty much disqualified as a graphic card supplier. They are simply too tardy and their video driver does not support offloading of the video to the graphic card GPU.

  6. #106
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    Default Απ: Re: Απ: Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

    Of course you are right about amd drivers, but many opesuse users in Hellas subforum face many problems with cοmpatibility of nvidia graphics card. These problems solved with amd, as you can see my computer is made entirely from products of amd as most users of Hellas subforum. Because I am member of Association of Greek friends of amd, I believe that amd is better than intel & nvidia in many things. The topic is not the prise but performance.

    We will see the Buldoser.

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    Default Re: Απ: Re: Απ: Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by stamostolias View Post
    Of course you are right about amd drivers, but many opesuse users in Hellas subforum face many problems with cοmpatibility of nvidia graphics card.
    That is definitely true for some in a recent release of the nVidia driver where there were many problems for a selected group of users who had specific software configurations (but it was not the case for all users - for example it did not affect our family where we have 4 PCs each with completely different nVidia hardware). Having typed that, my experience is this sort of less than desireable behaviour of a nVidia proprietary driver is relatively rare, where my view (possibly contrary to yours) is both ATI and Intel has significantly more problems with graphics support in Linux.

    Quote Originally Posted by stamostolias View Post
    These problems solved with amd, as you can see my computer is made entirely from products of amd as most users of Hellas subforum.
    I am glad to read that the ATI driver works well.

    IMHO there is a place for ATI graphic hardware (ATI hardware is very good for MS-Windows desktop users where AVIVO is supported in Windows, and ATI hardware good for Linux users in laptop PCs where both Intel and nVidia are lacking (for different reasons)).

    But I can say from my experience that for desktop PCs that the ATI hardware is not suitable for Linux users who want superb playback of High Definition Videos (at 1920x1080 @ high bit rates) on moderately aged PCs. The ATI Linux driver can not cut it there with their current driver failing to support AVIVO in Linux, and neither can the Intel hardware/driver combination as Intel have problems with Linux graphic drivers far exceeding those of nVidia. The same is true for legacy hardware where ATI driver support is now gone, and even Intel driver support is poor (example i855GM graphics).

    It is only the nVidia graphic driver which is coming through to meet this HD video requirement, and only nVidia who meet the legacy hardware/driver support requirement, that a number of us have. Both Intel and ATI graphic drivers fail here.

    I like to save money, but not at the cost of the Linux non-functionality (for HD video and legacy support) that exists with ATI and to a certain extent with Intel graphic hardware/drivers.

  8. #108
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    Default Απ: Re: Απ: Re: Απ: Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

    You need 3d acceleration to run hd video. AMD drivers include this program on Crossfire x.
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    Default Re: Απ: Re: Απ: Re: Απ: Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by stamostolias View Post
    You need 3d acceleration to run hd video. AMD drivers include this program on Crossfire x.
    Not so.

    AMD drivers work for HD playback in Windows. They do not in Linux.

    This is NOT an issue of 3D acceleration! Its an issue of offloading the video decoding from the CPU to the GPU of the graphic card.

    I've proven this fact on a number of PCs with ATI hardware.

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    Default Re: Απ: Re: Απ: Re: Απ: Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

    Thanks oldcpu. I'll remember the difference when I get around to buying a wide screen TV with HDMI inputs to connect to my computer and finally watch all those DVDs I've been threatening to.

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