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Thread: openSUSE, multimedia(aka restricted formats), zypper, one-click, reop#17410, nightmare

  1. #1

    Default openSUSE, multimedia(aka restricted formats), zypper, one-click, reop#17410, nightmare

    Hello All,

    I've been using /suse/i since the year 2000. I think 7.3 was my first SuSE install.

    I recently installed FC13 ... and wow ... everything that is important to me was working correctly in less than 2 hours ... an experience I have NOT had with a /suse/i release in quite a few years now .....

    Take a look at the many support threads from the 11.0 release forward about problems/confusion around getting restricted formats working. (And I DO remember that once upon a time ... a super simple restricted formats install guide ... "add packman repo and have fun!")

    1. There seems to be a serious bug with zypper/packag-kit/yast/???/integration-of-these that causes zypper to disrespect the priority settings for repositories in yast. I have encountered numerous examples personally. The ONLY reason I have not created a bug report is that I still don't really understand the problem ... I can only point to symptoms. And I have even seen this weird behaviour referred to as a "feature" .... I don't know what the issue is ... but I think IT MUST BE FIXED

    2. One-click .... causes far more problems than it solves ... get rid of it ... NOW. This is the ultimate emulation of Microsoft quality product development; create tools that appear to be EASY, but are ultimately more difficult to use than not to use. Frankly ... it causes me a little anger ....

    3. I really want to create 8 new repos in OBS ... not that I have a real reason ... just don't think we have enough to choose from .... Actually, OBS is great; much more successful than I would have expected it to be ... but having soooooo many repos to choose from certainly poses many opportunities to get confused. This really is not a complaint ... just a statement ...

    ... and don't forget to have fun!

  2. #2

    Default Re: openSUSE, multimedia(aka restricted formats), zypper, one-click, reop#17410, nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by oxala View Post
    1. There seems to be a serious bug with zypper/packag-kit/yast/???/integration-of-these that causes zypper to disrespect the priority settings for repositories in yast. I have encountered numerous examples personally. The ONLY reason I have not created a bug report is that I still don't really understand the problem ... I can only point to symptoms. And I have even seen this weird behaviour referred to as a "feature" .... I don't know what the issue is ... but I think IT MUST BE FIXED
    Use *any* example and open that bug report. It's easy:
    - I do X
    - I expect Y
    - I get Z (Z != Y)

    Until then, I consider this report (and any "serious bug" where the reported "doesn't know what the issue is") an (over self-confident) user error.

    Quote Originally Posted by oxala View Post
    2. One-click .... causes far more problems than it solves ... get rid of it ... NOW. This is the ultimate emulation of Microsoft quality product development; create tools that appear to be EASY, but are ultimately more difficult to use than not to use. Frankly ... it causes me a little anger ....
    You know Godwin's law? I think we need here something similar but about comparisons with Microsoft...
    One-click needs fixes, sure. Still waiting for a volunteer...

    Quote Originally Posted by oxala View Post
    3. I really want to create 8 new repos in OBS ... not that I have a real reason ... just don't think we have enough to choose from ....
    I know this is Soapbox, but... you know, you could propose a repo organization that you think is better than the current one.

  3. #3

    Default Re: openSUSE, multimedia(aka restricted formats), zypper, one-click, reop#17410, nightmare

    Hello RedDwarf,

    Your advice, while certainly intelligent, is actually a symptom of the problem. Typical interaction,

    user: package X from 3rd party repo Y doesn't work
    suse: inform 3rd party repo maintainer

    The chain of responsibility is broken or non-existent.

    See https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=553857 for just ONE example of the (f)utility of filing a bug report about anything related to the real issue here ...

    The reason I have posted a soapbox: I am convinced that it will take MUCH MORE than a bug report to disrupt the status quo

    The real issue:

    getting openSUSE to work with restricted formats is much more complicated and difficult than it should be; OpenSUSE can do better; ... don't believe me ... take Fedora's latest offering for a test drive ....

    Thanks for the reply,


    cwight

  4. #4

    Default Re: openSUSE, multimedia(aka restricted formats), zypper, one-click, reop#17410, nightmare

    Hello again,

    Thanks for the Godwin's law hint ... I was not aware of this ... excellent!

    One-click needs fixes, sure. Still waiting for a volunteer..
    My code contribution:

    for box in $BIG_UGLY_WEB_SERVER_LIST; do
    ssh $box -e "find / -iregex \".*one-click.*\" -exec ab -cd {} \;"
    done
    Last edited by swerdna; 10-Aug-2010 at 13:15. Reason: malicious code

  5. #5
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    Default Re: openSUSE, multimedia(aka restricted formats), zypper,one-click, reop#17410, nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by oxala
    Hello All,

    I've been using /suse/i since the year 2000. I think 7.3 was my first
    SuSE install.

    ... and don't forget to have fun!
    Hi
    It's simple for me...
    Code:
    sudo zypper in fluendo-codecs-complete-bundle fluendo-dvd
    I'm all done no worries with any media or dvd's.....

    PS, Please don't multipost.

    --
    Cheers Malcolm (Linux Counter #276890)
    openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.34-12-default
    up 7 days 5:20, 2 users, load average: 0.17, 0.08, 0.01
    GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 256.44


  6. #6

    Default Re: openSUSE, multimedia(aka restricted formats), zypper,one-click, reop#17410, nightmare

    Hello Malcom,

    Thanks for the response!

    Are the packages "fluendo-codecs-complete-bundle" and "fluendo-dvd" the commercial offerings sold by fluendo here:

    Complete Set of Playback Plugins | Fluendo Shop ?

    Hmmmmmmm (me pretending to think) .....

    The availablity of these codecs is certainly an important part of this discussion. IMO, a little steep at eur 28 with the greenback going the way of the Mexican Peso and the Italian Lira, but nonetheless a viable option for those of you fortunate enough to live in a "First World" country.

    But the important part ... yes ... there is a commercial option. There is also a free option, free as in freedom (not free beer). The unequivocally ludricous intellectual property regime the ruling class of the US is trying to impose on the world is THE reason for the FREE option being available ONLY from third party packagers. This is WAY BEYOND the scope of the discussion I really want to have, but worth metioning nonetheless.

    The discussion I really WANT to have, all revolutionary longings aside:

    What must change for OpenSUSE 11.4 to be more like FC13 and less like OpenSUSE 11.0,11.1,11.2, and now 11.3 in the area of making the FREE option easier to choose.

    Cheers!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: openSUSE, multimedia(aka restricted formats), zypper, one-click, reop#17410, nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by oxala View Post
    ... I still don't really understand the problem ...
    And here is the crux of the problem. You don't understand how it all works, that's why you're having trouble.

    Adding the multimedia is still "just adding Packman".

    You want to a super simple way to install multimedia on a fresh 11.3 box?

    zypper ar -f http://packman.inode.at/suse/11.3/packman.repo
    zypper in --from Packman libxine1 libxine1-codecs
    Congratulations, you are now able to play almost every single format necessary for normal multimedia operations under KDE. Insert trumpets. As for GNOME, I don't care - I don't use that trash.

  8. #8

    Default Re: openSUSE, multimedia(aka restricted formats), zypper, one-click, reop#17410, nightmare

    I find that the multimedia 1-clicks for 11.3 work perfectly, without exception, on both GNOME and KDE

    I will concede that in the past, such as the 11.0 the OP mentions, things were less than perfect, but have you actually tried it recently?

    As for Zypper ignoring repo priorities, I thought this was by design, what with satsolver not allowing vendor change (and therefore repo change) by default.
    That behaviour can be changed back to its 10.x type behaviour though, just a few config file changes, in which case I believe your repo priorities will act just like they used to... though I'll stick with my dep solver that doesn't randomly pull in packages from unexpected sources, thnx

  9. #9

    Default Re: openSUSE, multimedia(aka restricted formats), zypper, one-click, reop#17410, nightmare

    Hello Chrysantine,

    Thanks for joining this conversation!

    And here is the crux of the problem. You don't understand how it all works, that's why you're having trouble.
    I don't understand how it all works; I doubt you or anyone else does either.

    REALITY 101 - Lesson 11c

    The software stack we all use and enjoy each day is enormeously complicated. The extent of the complexity is probably beyond the capacity of any single human being to actually understand. BTW, I feel confident repeating this statement substituting "software stack" with your car, your clock radio, your telephone, your iPod, etc.

    I don't really understand how it all works! It's true! It is a trivial and uniteresting statement; it's certainly not "the crux" of the problem as you have written.

    The "crux" of the problem is that the manner in which OpenSUSE offers access to "restricted media" is more complicated than is necessary and more error prone than is desirable.

    Cheers!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: openSUSE, multimedia(aka restricted formats), zypper, one-click, reop#17410, nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by RBrownCCB View Post
    As for Zypper ignoring repo priorities, I thought this was by design, what with satsolver not allowing vendor change (and therefore repo change) by default.
    Ding Ding! We have a winner!

    This is exactly why it "ignores" priority values because of vendor stickyness. Aww, and you thought we didn't know how it works Oxala.

    Don't lose sleep over it though, I forgive you.

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