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Thread: KDE 3

  1. #11

    Default Re: KDE 3

    The devs at kde.org took good care of the fact that users would want to run their favorite KDE3 apps under KDE4 and v.v.
    I doubt they spent any effort in that direction. Installing KDE3 along KDE4 is rather difficult task and not many distributions managed to allow that. In fact even package names in KDE3 and KDE4 coincide which makes it especially difficult task to include both in any DEB-based distribution (where package names are used for dependency resolution).

    The only thing why we still can use both KDE3 and KDE4 is that Novell's effort to make the both compatible back in those times when both still were supported by Novell. Novell did not do like other vendors did (such as Ubuntu) who just replaced KDE3 with KDE4 at the stage when KDE4 was close to a beta-testing stage and forced people either accept or move to Gnome.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: KDE 3

    The attention may have been more then it is now, but it sure was there, also on Debian. Articles on protocols in the KDE naming conventions were all over the place when KDE4 first arrived.
    It's been explained by the kde.org again and again, that the KDE framework simply was not enough to keep on serving user wishes (amongst other things). Simply technology that does no longer suit all needs.
    I bet I can make a KDE4 desktop appearance that looks completely KDE3, and most of KDE3 users wouldn't know the difference. Yes, they would discover lots of new features and notice further integration of apps.
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  3. #13

    Default Re: KDE 3

    I bet I can make a KDE4 desktop appearance that looks completely KDE3, and most of KDE3 users wouldn't know the difference. Yes, they would discover lots of new features and notice further integration of apps
    I doubt it is possible. The only KDE3-like style available in KDE4 is Phase (which I personally dislike) and it is impossible to have plasma (the taskbar) to use the same style. Also they have ugly Oxygen icons and the only icon theme ported from KDE3 is 'KDE Classic', although it is only partially compatible with KDE4. Among other things absence of spatial mode in file browser (which alone could be a barring issue for me), icons on the desktop are no longer managed by file manager (which considerably reduces functionality), impossibility to disable the glittering effects in plasma even when using themes completely alien to such style, no storage/network/home/trash icons on the desktop and many many other things.

    It is much easier to make Gnome appear similar to KDE3.

  4. #14

    Default Re: KDE 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansus View Post
    no storage/network/home/trash icons on the desktop and many many other things.

    It is much easier to make Gnome appear similar to KDE3.
    At least the missing trash on the desktop
    is in fact unintuitive and deterrent,
    especially for unexperienced users.

    In Gnome I missed similar things once.

    However, under KDE4 that can be brought back quite simple:

    Going to SUSE menu, section Computer, scrolling down
    until the trash appears, clicking with the right mouse button
    on that trash, then in the appearing context menu choosing
    'add to desktop'
    brings back the trash (or an alias of it) on the desktop.

    Other things will probably not be customised that easily:
    I personally dislike that in the savings dialogue,
    where saving a file in almost all cases will be the default action,
    under KDE4 the abort button instead of the save button
    appears in the lower right corner.

    In other situations, such as a confirmation that an existing
    file should be overwritten/replaced, to place the abort button
    in the lower right corner makes much more sense.

    After getting used to it a bit, in my view Dolphin feels quite well
    and brings potential for quick working - despite the fact, that
    the location by default is shown in that windows manner,
    instead of by an 'Editable Location', like in a web browser,
    which is much more original KDE style !

  5. #15

    Default Re: KDE 3

    Still a few more thoughts on that.

    Arguments like stable and fast sound good.

    But a deeper reason for the critisism with respect to KDE 4
    probably is the change in the user interface.

    I learned to work fast under MacOS 8 and 9 by heart.

    With KDE 3 I never had a problem.

    That this changed at first with respect to KDE 4, see
    No joke: How to open a folder in KDE 4.35 (openSUSE 11.2) ? - openSUSE Forums
    had a simple reason:
    From my experience under MacOS, I automaticly click on the folder icon
    to open the folder, because under MacOS, if you click on the folder name
    and move the mouse just a bit, the name of the folder is highlightened and
    can be edited.
    I don't understand besides, why with KDE 4 a new separate window was
    introduced to edit the name of a folder or file, instead of editing that name
    in place, like under KDE 3 or MacOS - again one of the less intuitive
    changes in KDE 4.

    Selecting a folder under MacOS is by a single click, which is different
    from KDE 3.

    So under KDE 4 I clicked and clicked and clicked on the folder icon
    and couldn't open the folder.

    Now folder selection in KDE 3 in the small icon view was easy
    by clicking in the respective lines right of the foldername.

    In large icon view it was more difficult to select, at least for the
    first folder to be selected.

    Probably the KDE developers considered that unsatisfactory.
    And here the KDE developers changed a very basic concept,
    with the problem that their new concept practically directly contradicts
    the experience gathered by users on many of the important
    or widely known desktops (Windows, MacOS, KDE3 and more).

    However, whether one likes it or not, it is unlikely that KDE 3.5
    stays alive for a long time.

    Even if KDE 3.5 would be included in openSUSE 11.3 again,
    what will be about openSUSE 12 ?

    Because they are directly affected in their daily work,
    users familiar to KDE 3 will classify the changes in the concepts
    of the user interface as severe.

    But in the end it may be more effective to ask the KDE developers
    to revise some changes in the concepts of the user interface
    that came with KDE 4,
    or to ask for more choices for the users to change the behaviour
    of the KDE 4 user interface (quite unusual idea, at least in the
    windows world ...).

    How much programming work would that really take ?
    E.g. to change the behaviour with respect to the opening of a folder ?
    How many lines of code ?
    A small piece of the overall code of KDE 3 or 4 I guess.

    Here's the point to attack.
    The battle on KDE 3 can not be won.
    Except if there is a split of the development of KDE.
    Does anybody wants this ?

  6. #16

    Default Re: KDE 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansus View Post
    You can safely upgrade to 11.2. BTW, I have sound in KDE3 even without being myself in audio. Maybe this is fixed in 11.2.
    There is another issue with 11.2, which I do not believe relates to KDE version, that prevents me from that migration. Something within the networking configuration in 11.2 has so far prevented me from integrating it into my VERY heterogeneous network which includes two subnets linked with VPN via Smoothwall. Everything works peachy with any Suse from 10.0 to 11.1, but 11.2 will not properly connect. I have made a post on that topic in the networking area of the forum site.

  7. #17

    Default Re: KDE 3

    Quote Originally Posted by tgarson View Post
    There is another issue with 11.2, which I do not believe relates to KDE version, that prevents me from that migration. Something within the networking configuration in 11.2 has so far prevented me from integrating it into my VERY heterogeneous network which includes two subnets linked with VPN via Smoothwall. Everything works peachy with any Suse from 10.0 to 11.1, but 11.2 will not properly connect. I have made a post on that topic in the networking area of the forum site.
    Look, I would say this is off topic.

    Why don't you post this in the install-boot-login forum directly ?
    11.2 is the actual version !

    I'm quite sure that sb. will to try to find an answer to this.

    That's my experience.

  8. #18

    Default Re: KDE 3

    I don't understand besides, why with KDE 4 a new separate window was
    introduced to edit the name of a folder or file, instead of editing that name
    in place, like under KDE 3 or MacOS - again one of the less intuitive
    changes in KDE 4.
    Indeed. And also in Gnome. The problem seems to be connected with Plasma limitation. In KDE3, Gnome, Windows the desktop icons are handled by the file browser, so icons in folders and on the desktop behave similarly. Under KDE4 this is impossible.

  9. #19

    Default Re: KDE 3

    Even if KDE 3.5 would be included in openSUSE 11.3 again,
    what will be about openSUSE 12 ?
    OBS nature allows users to fork projects and do the maintenance work themselves. You know there is even working KDE2 in OBS: http://software.opensuse.org/ymp/hom...1/kdebase2.ymp

    In any case it is possible to install software by enabling repositories intended for previous release.

    But in the end it may be more effective to ask the KDE developers
    to revise some changes in the concepts of the user interface
    that came with KDE 4,
    or to ask for more choices for the users to change the behaviour
    of the KDE 4 user interface (quite unusual idea, at least in the
    windows world ...).
    Many users already asked but they were firm. You know initially even kicker has been ported to Qt4 and first alpha releases of KDE4 came with kicker. But then the developers decided to drop the already ported and working kicker altogether (probably fearing insufficient testers for plasma). This decision even sparked an internal conflict in KDE team and some of the devs left the project.

  10. #20

    Default Re: KDE 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansus View Post
    I don't understand besides, why with KDE 4 a new separate window was introduced to edit the name of a folder or file, instead of editing that name in place, like under KDE 3 or MacOS - again one of the less intuitive changes in KDE 4.
    Indeed. And also in Gnome. The problem seems to be connected with Plasma limitation. In KDE3, Gnome, Windows the desktop icons are handled by the file browser, so icons in folders and on the desktop behave similarly. Under KDE4 this is impossible.
    I have some experience in programming, and I could imagine very well
    one aspect:

    writing code for a routine that opens a separate window, in which the
    name of sth. can be edited, and using this routine for all such tasks
    of a desktop is quite straightforward, and simplifies things.

    Writing code for editing in place the name of a folder or file
    will in contrast be quite ugly and error-prone, because such
    code highly depends upon the variables and surrounding code,
    within which it is to be implemented.

    However, such code, i.e. of the latter kind, has obviously been
    present in KDE 3 .

    This code then very likely didn't look very straightforward,
    but the result of it obviously was user-friendly.

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