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Thread: Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

    I am especially weak on UDEV (ie if Xorg fails to automatically detect/configure one's graphics, should one 1st try to edit things in UDEV ??? ). If one decides instead to come up with an edit to a config file for the graphics directly, should one instead go to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/directory and edit the files there? Or should one instead run "Xorg -configure" which creates the xorg.conf.new in /root and then copy that file to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.
    I think we'll see a variety of solutions using all 3 methods over time.

    BTW, I had a brief look at the graphic card parctical theory guide - its very informative and useful in assisting with the approach required to acheiving successful manual configuration. Good effort oldcpu, as I know it isn't an easy task.

    I don't know just yet what I am going to do about the assigned action to write a wiki, as I feel my knowledge is lacking.
    I'd leave it for a while, and see what knowledge base is developed across the distro's, especially with respect to the new .conf files (although they are really fragmented xorg.conf sections), and the graphics-related udev rules.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

    Quote Originally Posted by deano_ferrari View Post
    I'd leave it for a while, and see what knowledge base is developed across the distro's, especially with respect to the new .conf files (although they are really fragmented xorg.conf sections), and the graphics-related udev rules.
    Stefan Dirsch replied gave me some guidance here: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=608237 so I have my work cut out for me to read this and bring myself "up to speed" on this subject, so as to write a decent guide. ... here is the information from the bug report that he passed to me:
    Stefan Dirsch 2010-06-11 12:12:19 UTC
    Here are some pointers.

    - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config
    - Input device configuration - FedoraProject
    - Who-T: New configuration world order
    - xorg-server 1.8/udev
    * /sbin/udevd -V
    * udevadm test /class/input/eventX
    * udevadm info -e | grep ID_INPUT (KEYBOARD, MOUSE, KEY, TOUCHPAD, ...)
    * Does re-plugging the input devices makes them appear?
    If they can't be removed/connected, try:
    udevadm trigger -v --subsystem-match=input
    ... I confess I've never taken the time to look into UDEV, nor really into xorg.conf contents (not since 1998 or so, and I think it was xfree86.conf back then) .... and I'm going to take the advise, and read and study, but not rush to write anything.

    I'm thinking now, thou, what might be necessary for openSUSE-11.3 users who can not get their graphics automatically configured by Xorg.conf is to (in order):
    1. establish initially a basic configuration with fbdev or vesa (or other) driver so as to have as a minimum a low resolution xorg environment so as to have some basic GUI tools to improve things; that may mean copying /etc/X11/xorg.conf.install to /etc/X11.xorg
    2. if knoweldgeable in UDEV (ok, that removes 99.99% of us ) fix the UDEV rules,
    3. if UDEV method not known (that means 99.99% of us), and if one has the knowledge to edit xorg.conf file contents (that means 1% of us), then use that knowledge to edit the custom files under /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ where there are as of openSUSE-11.3 many files that can be editted. But that means 99% of us don't know how to do that.
    4. if UDEV and /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ edits fail, then try: Xorg -configure #and copy /root/xorg.conf.new to /etc/X11/xorg.conf file and try that file (or try an edit to that file);
    5. and of course, don't forget to try a proprietary graphic driver where one is available. ATI and nVidia, for example, recommend users try the "vesa" driver, and if that fails, to use their proprietary graphic driver.

    I think we will need also to recommend all previous Linux users who are thinking of trying openSUSE-11.3, need to copy the xorg.conf file (if they have one) from their current Linux to a USB stick, and have that ready for openSUSE-11.3 in case needed.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

    I wouldn't get too concerned about udev, with respect to graphics driver configuration. (That will concern input devices however). I think options 1 and 4 should be the primary means to getting a basic desktop environment operational with the vesa or fbdev drivers. The xorg.conf.install is a good fallback, as is using xorg -configure to generate a basic working config file.

    The use of .conf files in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ makes sense to me, and where needed, it should not be to difficult to create or edit the appropriate files, or even use working sections from legacy xorg.conf files. From the discussions and examples I've read about, they seem to mainly concern input device configuration, with very little mentioned about graphics configuration so far.

    I'm reasonably familiar with udev rules as far as most hardware detection goes, but obviously I haven't seen how this relates to X-server configuration yet. From my experience, it is easier to edit udev rules than messing with HAL fdi xml files. Again, I'm not sure that udev rules will be applicable to graphics cards, but instead used to provide support for input device configuration. I note that in the Fedora wiki, it is advised

    Generally, users should not need to configure udev or add udev rules to enable device detection in X. While supported, users are discouraged from putting X.org-specific configuration content into udev rules files.
    This XorgHAL page also mentions

    Instead of udev rules, users and distributions are encouraged to use the xorg.conf.d for configuration. Old-style xorg.conf configuration is still available.
    So where required (and practical to do so), it is being encouraged to use the .conf files (within /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/) for any additional configuration.

    An example of udev configuration (and hal migration) for input devices is described well here:

    https://wiki.kubuntu.org/X/InputConfiguration

    I think we will need also to recommend all previous Linux users who are thinking of trying openSUSE-11.3, need to copy the xorg.conf file (if they have one) from their current Linux to a USB stick, and have that ready for openSUSE-11.3 in case needed.
    Good advice.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

    Quote Originally Posted by deano_ferrari View Post
    I wouldn't get too concerned about udev, with respect to graphics driver configuration. (That will concern input devices however). I think options 1 and 4 should be the primary means to getting a basic desktop environment operational with the vesa or fbdev drivers. The xorg.conf.install is a good fallback, as is using xorg -configure to generate a basic working config file.
    For 11.3 I am thinking/proposing the guidance to give for users when Xorg fails to automatically configure X, and one can not reach X is the following order of tries:
    1. Try from grub with boot code: nomodeset=1
    2. Try from grub: failsafe
    3. Try from run level-3 /etc/X11: cp xorg.conf.install xorg.conf [ie for fbdev boot if xorg.conf.install exists]
    4. Try from run level-3: Xorg -configure ; cp /root/xorg.conf.new /etc/X11/xorg.conf (and edit as required (example change "radeon" to "vesa" driver ... ))
    5. Try proprietary ATI or nVidia graphic driver (point to other wiki)
    6. Using info from step-3 or step-4 above, edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-device.conf (or other file in that directory)
    7. Try Udev edits as last resort (due to complexity)


    ... and of course anywhere during those steps, contact IRC chat #suse or openSUSE forums for help.

    The above is just an outline. Wiki would need hand holding details.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

    Yes, that approach makes sense as a first line of obtaining a working graphics card configuration. I'm sure that this will be further refined and adjusted as problems (and solutions) manifest over time.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

    I haven't had any luck with creating an xorg.conf in /etc/X11, the new trick to get into vesa mode is to edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-device.conf like this:
    Section "Device"
    Identifier "Default Device"
    Driver "vesa"
    #Driver "radeon"

    ## Required magic for radeon/radeonhd drivers; output name
    ## (here: "DVI-0") can be figured out via 'xrandr -q'
    #Option "monitor-DVI-0" "Default Monitor"

    EndSection
    Not too hard to get used to, I suppose the rest of the files in that folder can be edited the same way. Maybe it's a good idea to structure it up this way?

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

    Quote Originally Posted by hank_se View Post
    I haven't had any luck with creating an xorg.conf in /etc/X11, the new trick to get into vesa mode is to edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-device.conf like this:
    Code:
    Section "Device"
    Identifier "Default Device"
    Driver "vesa"
    #Driver "radeon"
    
    ## Required magic for radeon/radeonhd drivers; output name
    ## (here: "DVI-0") can be figured out via 'xrandr -q'
    #Option "monitor-DVI-0" "Default Monitor"
    
    EndSection
    Not too hard to get used to, I suppose the rest of the files in that folder can be edited the same way. Maybe it's a good idea to structure it up this way?
    If that is a working example, it might be useful to include somewhere in a guide.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

    Yes that is a working example, if I try with /etc/X11/xorg.conf like this:
    Section "Monitor"
    Identifier "External"
    # Option "RightOf" "Panel"
    EndSection

    #Section "Monitor"
    # Identifier "Panel"
    #EndSection

    Section "Device"
    Identifier "vesa"
    Driver "vesa"
    Option "monitor-VGA_1" "External"
    # Option "monitor-PANEL" "Panel"
    # Option "RROutputOrder" "PANEL"
    EndSection

    Section "Screen"
    Identifier "MyScreen"
    Device "vesa"
    DefaultDepth 24
    SubSection "Display"
    Depth 24
    ## This is superfluous and actually harmful with a
    ## static configuration. Enable for dynamic config only.
    #Virtual 2704 1050
    EndSubSection
    EndSection
    X will still use the nvidia driver, only if I remove /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-device.conf will X use vesa mode. Example xorg.conf is taken from here:
    X.Org Wiki - radeonhd

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

    I agree with hank_se, in so far as encouraging the use of xorg.conf.d in preference to xorg.conf. Although we don't know much about his failure with xorg.conf or on what release (11.3 I assume?). We don't know who/what generated the previous commented-out device entry.

    The xorg.conf has become increasingly easier to configure over time with many options defaulting, and some whole sections e.g. modesetting rarely being needed. Culminating in the fact that xorg.conf.d files will only require relatively simple additions by users, if any.

    Splitting the old xorg.conf into manageable pieces in xorg.conf.d was done for the benefit of application/driver/hardware developers/programmers.

    Since openSUSE 10.1, I have always required a manually edited xorg.conf to provide a working "via" or "openchrome" driver. Driver option statements have only been required to overcome unsophisticated driver development or driver bugs. Those workarounds have tended to apply to all distros depending on driver release in use, but have traditionally come from other distros. At least I have always managed to find the support somewhere.

    With xorg's latest auto configuration, I haven't needed to configure anything. Just needed to manually install one of the preferred (of 3 possibles) drivers for openSUSE 11.3 since it isn't on the liveCD. If I want to try all of them without uninstalling, I will use xorg.conf.d as the simplest way to overide xorg's pecking order.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Are we using "Xorg -configure" now???

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcpu View Post
    For 11.3 I am thinking/proposing the guidance to give for users when Xorg fails to automatically configure X, and one can not reach X is the following order of tries:
    1. Try from grub with boot code: nomodeset=1
    2. Try from grub: failsafe
    3. Try from run level-3 /etc/X11: cp xorg.conf.install xorg.conf [ie for fbdev boot if xorg.conf.install exists]
    4. Try from run level-3: Xorg -configure ; cp /root/xorg.conf.new /etc/X11/xorg.conf (and edit as required (example change "radeon" to "vesa" driver ... ))
    5. Try proprietary ATI or nVidia graphic driver (point to other wiki)
    6. Using info from step-3 or step-4 above, edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-device.conf (or other file in that directory)
    7. Try Udev edits as last resort (due to complexity)


    ... and of course anywhere during those steps, contact IRC chat #suse or openSUSE forums for help.

    The above is just an outline. Wiki would need hand holding details.
    The outline looks ok, except that I would prefer to see the editing of driver device configuration statement in xorg.conf.d, attempted at step #3. No reason why a distro liveCD cannot be used at this point to edit the config files. It could save a user spending unproductive time on xorg.conf familiarization (becoming redundant).

    Step #7 only applies to udev devices (hotplug) now including input devices, but not graphic cards. I haven't read anything that details udev support for graphic cards (not during timescale for xorg-xserver 1.8.0 at least).

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