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Thread: Why so many packages being installed....???

  1. #1

    Default Why so many packages being installed....???

    Hello,

    I just installed suse 11.2 into my home pc.

    When I tried to install the nvidia drivers (which BTW worked successfully) from a link on the suse nvidia page, the installer also decided to install (or update????) a WHOLE SLEW OF OTHER PACKAGES - including sound drivers and other things that were seemingly not nvidia related. Took 5-10 minutes or so.

    Also, when I tried to adjust language settings (adding Japanese as a supplemental language), again, the SAME THING HAPPENED. A WHOLE SLEW OF NON-RELATED PACKAGES WERE INSTALLED. Took 15 minutes or more.

    Is the suse package manager set up such that if updates exist, EVERYTHING will be UPDATED even with install of only 2 or 3 other packages???

    This was REALLY bizarre, and I can see it as a major stumbling block to my enjoyment of Suse if it continues.

    Thanks for any insight you can give.

    - Dulwithe.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Why so many packages being installed....???

    These are weak dependencies.
    If you use Japanese and have amarok installed the translation of amarok to Japanese will be a weak dependency.
    There are two levels of weak dependencies. The first level is installed by default automatically, the second level is just informative and aren't installed automatically.
    These dependencies are supposed to be of interest to you, but you aren't forced to install them.

    You can disable this globally (look for something related to "recommends" in zypp.conf), or you can just remove from the installation list an specific package and it will not be selected automatically the next time.


    It is a feature, a great one if you ask me.

  3. #3
    PeeGee NNTP User

    Default Re: Why so many packages being installed....???

    RedDwarf wrote:
    > These are weak dependencies.
    > If you use Japanese and have amarok installed the translation of amarok
    > to Japanese will be a weak dependency.
    > There are two levels of weak dependencies. The first level is installed
    > by default automatically, the second level is just informative and
    > aren't installed automatically.
    > These dependencies are supposed to be of interest to you, but you
    > aren't forced to install them.
    >
    > You can disable this globally (look for something related to
    > "recommends" in zypp.conf), or you can just remove from the installation
    > list an specific package and it will not be selected automatically the
    > next time.
    >
    >
    > It is a feature, a great one if you ask me.
    >
    >


    I take that as a "Microsoft Feature" (we screwed up, but we'll pretend
    we meant it :-) ).

    Personally, I would prefer not to install 30 odd* language modules (some
    very odd!) when I remove the OpenOffice database and presentation
    modules :-( If there's a global control flag, then fine, but tell us
    what it is.

    * it may have been a few less, but I could only find <ctrl><-> as a
    method of "removing" them from the update - and it took ages :-(

    --
    PeeGee

    Asus m/b M2V-MX SE, AMD LE1640, 2GB, openSUSE 11.0 x86-64/XP Home VBox
    Asus m/b M2NPV-VM, AMD 64X2 3800+, 2GB, openSUSE 10.3 x86-64/XP Home
    dual boot
    Acer Aspire 1350, AMD (M)XP2400+, 768MB, openSUSE 11.2/XP Home dual boot
    Asus eeePC 4G (701), Celeron M353, 2GB, Mandriva 2009.1 on SSD/openSUSE
    11.2 on USB disk

  4. #4

    Default Re: Why so many packages being installed....???

    Quote Originally Posted by PeeGee View Post
    I take that as a "Microsoft Feature" (we screwed up, but we'll pretend
    we meant it :-) ).

    Personally, I would prefer not to install 30 odd* language modules (some
    very odd!) when I remove the OpenOffice database and presentation
    modules :-( If there's a global control flag, then fine, but tell us
    what it is.
    Removing a package will not trigger a weak dependency.

    But anyway, from /etc/zypp/zypp.conf
    ##
    ## Whether required packages are installed ONLY
    ## So recommended packages, language packages and packages which depend
    ## on hardware (modalias) will not be regarded.
    ##
    ## Valid values: boolean
    ## Default value: false
    ##
    # solver.onlyRequires = false

  5. #5

    Default Re: Why so many packages being installed....???

    Thanks for your replies. Much appreciated. I'll try what was suggested and report back.

    Still, it seems (as a poster suggested) like a very Microsoft-like thing to do - to install a whack of software with no opt-out option when you are just asking to install a couple packages.

  6. #6
    PeeGee NNTP User

    Default Re: Why so many packages being installed....???

    RedDwarf wrote:
    > PeeGee;2079734 Wrote:
    >> I take that as a "Microsoft Feature" (we screwed up, but we'll pretend
    >> we meant it :-) ).
    >>
    >> Personally, I would prefer not to install 30 odd* language modules
    >> (some
    >> very odd!) when I remove the OpenOffice database and presentation
    >> modules :-( If there's a global control flag, then fine, but tell us
    >> what it is.

    > Removing a package will not trigger a weak dependency.
    >
    > But anyway, from /etc/zypp/zypp.conf
    >> ##
    >> ## Whether required packages are installed ONLY
    >> ## So recommended packages, language packages and packages which
    >> depend
    >> ## on hardware (modalias) will not be regarded.
    >>
    >> ##
    >>
    >> ## Valid values: boolean
    >>
    >> ## Default value: false
    >>
    >> ##
    >>
    >> # solver.onlyRequires = false

    >
    >


    Thanks - I don't use zypper directly (and 11.2 is still "experimental"
    for me while I check I can get/do what I want :-) ) so didn't think of
    that approach :-(

    --
    PeeGee

    Asus m/b M2V-MX SE, AMD LE1640, 2GB, openSUSE 11.0 x86-64/XP Home VBox
    Asus m/b M2NPV-VM, AMD 64X2 3800+, 2GB, openSUSE 10.3 x86-64/XP Home
    dual boot
    Acer Aspire 1350, AMD (M)XP2400+, 768MB, openSUSE 11.2/XP Home dual boot
    Asus eeePC 4G (701), Celeron M353, 2GB, Mandriva 2009.1 on SSD/openSUSE
    11.2 on USB disk

  7. #7

    Default Re: Why so many packages being installed....???

    Quote Originally Posted by Dulwithe View Post
    Still, it seems (as a poster suggested) like a very Microsoft-like thing to do - to install a whack of software with no opt-out option when you are just asking to install a couple packages.
    There is a feature that allows:
    - The packager to make some packages automatically selected for installation if he thinks that's the best to the user.
    - The packager to mark some packages so the package managing tools list them to the user as "perhaps you are interested in these, when you have a moment look at them and select the ones you want"
    - The user to completly disable it
    - The user to disable it on a per-package basis

    I don't see the problem... Do you really think it's wrong that if you mark Japanese as a language to use the package manager automatically selects for installation japanese tranlations/docs/voices of/for installed packages in the next run? You can select if you want each one of them or not... but if you added Japanese as a language I suppose you will want them.

    If you have a problem with an *specific* weak dependency in an *specific* package ask the packager to remove it. But I don't see how someone could have a proble with the feature itself.

  8. #8
    PeeGee NNTP User

    Default Re: Why so many packages being installed....???

    RedDwarf wrote:
    > Dulwithe;2079935 Wrote:
    >> Still, it seems (as a poster suggested) like a very Microsoft-like thing
    >> to do - to install a whack of software with no opt-out option when you
    >> are just asking to install a couple packages.

    > There is a feature that allows:
    > - The packager to make some packages automatically selected for
    > installation if he thinks that's the best to the user.
    > - The packager to mark some packages so the package managing tools list
    > them to the user as "perhaps you are interested in these, when you have
    > a moment look at them and select the ones you want"
    > - The user to completly disable it
    > - The user to disable it on a per-package basis
    >
    > I don't see the problem... Do you really think it's wrong that if you
    > mark Japanese as a language to use the package manager automatically
    > selects for installation japanese tranlations/docs/voices of/for
    > installed packages in the next run? You can select if you want each one
    > of them or not... but if you added Japanese as a language I suppose you
    > will want them.


    OTOH if you want the French language model, would you want Japanese,
    German, Spanish, Welsh, ............. ? I would suggest a very small
    percentage would want *all* non-installed languages not requested in
    this circumstance.

    >
    > If you have a problem with an *specific* weak dependency in an
    > *specific* package ask the packager to remove it. But I don't see how
    > someone could have a proble with the feature itself.
    >
    >


    The operative word is "weak" - which I would read as "unlikely to be
    needed generally".

    However, we are all different and I prefer to select apps that *I* want
    to have and to have any missing *essential* supporting modules (ie those
    without which the app will not work) selected for installation :-)
    Others may prefer to install everything in sight, just in case they want it.

    --
    PeeGee

    Asus m/b M2V-MX SE, AMD LE1640, 2GB, openSUSE 11.0 x86-64/XP Home VBox
    Asus m/b M2NPV-VM, AMD 64X2 3800+, 2GB, openSUSE 10.3 x86-64/XP Home
    dual boot
    Acer Aspire 1350, AMD (M)XP2400+, 768MB, openSUSE 11.2/XP Home dual boot
    Asus eeePC 4G (701), Celeron M353, 2GB, Mandriva 2009.1 on SSD/openSUSE
    11.2 on USB disk

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why so many packages being installed....???

    Quote Originally Posted by PeeGee View Post
    RedDwarf wrote:
    > Dulwithe;2079935 Wrote:
    >> Still, it seems (as a poster suggested) like a very Microsoft-like thing
    >> to do - to install a whack of software with no opt-out option when you
    >> are just asking to install a couple packages.

    > There is a feature that allows:
    > - The packager to make some packages automatically selected for
    > installation if he thinks that's the best to the user.
    > - The packager to mark some packages so the package managing tools list
    > them to the user as "perhaps you are interested in these, when you have
    > a moment look at them and select the ones you want"
    > - The user to completly disable it
    > - The user to disable it on a per-package basis
    >
    > I don't see the problem... Do you really think it's wrong that if you
    > mark Japanese as a language to use the package manager automatically
    > selects for installation japanese tranlations/docs/voices of/for
    > installed packages in the next run? You can select if you want each one
    > of them or not... but if you added Japanese as a language I suppose you
    > will want them.


    OTOH if you want the French language model, would you want Japanese,
    German, Spanish, Welsh, ............. ? I would suggest a very small
    percentage would want *all* non-installed languages not requested in
    this circumstance.
    [color=blue]
    I don't understand you here.
    If you select French as a language French translations will be installed, no German or Spanish.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeeGee View Post
    The operative word is "weak" - which I would read as "unlikely to be
    needed generally".
    As I said there are two levels of weak dependencies. So, with strong you have:
    - Strong dependencies: NEEDED for the app to work
    - First level weak dependencies (recommends): related and "likely to be needed generally"
    - Second level weak dependencies (suggests): related, but "unlikely to be needed generally"

    The feature has the needed granularity.

    If you think a package has a "recommends" that should be a "suggests"... ask the packager of that specific package to change it.

  10. #10

    Thumbs up Re: Why so many packages being installed....???

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDwarf View Post
    but if you added Japanese as a language I suppose you will want them.

    No... Most people who use "secondary" languages use them for their 2nd or 3rd (or 4th) languages. This means that character display and input is 100% necessary, but changing the program and desktop environment into the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th language (including menus, help files, etc) is NOT necessary NOR desired.

    I guess it was disappointing to me that I wasn't even prompted for a choice with the weak dependencies. (But I am glad that Japanese input it working.)

    And thanks for your reply, too. Very educational!!

    D.

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