Page 1 of 20 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 191

Thread: SUSE would be perfect if it used Debian Package Mangement

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    A place with no mountains
    Posts
    280

    Arrow SUSE would be perfect if it used Debian Package Mangement

    The more I use openSUSE 11.2, the more I love it. Today, I tried another highly recommended KDE4 distro, and while it was nice, I immediately recognized that the excellent integration and refinements SUSE includes are very much to my liking. openSUSE is nearly perfect for me in every way -- except one. The package management continues to leave me baffled.

    I was hoping I would eventually learn to like it as much as Synaptic, aptitude/apt-get and the other tools on Debian-based distros. But the more I read, the more I am questioning whether I will ever like it.

    For example, see this:
    Package Managers in Linux
    That article seems to sum up my own (rather limited) experience perfectly. I'm now fairly convinced that Debian-based package management is the gold standard. (Of course, I'm just going on what I have read. I'm far from expert, and I'm hoping to get educated by posting questions like this one.)

    But I doubt I will find a distro that is equal to openSUSE in every way except that it uses Debian-based package management. (I wish such a distro existed.)

    So, if I have to live with YaST, zypper, RPMs, etc., how can I learn to have the best experience with the least amount of investment?

    Low investment is important because if I really wanted to invest the time to become more of an expert in operating systems, package management, etc., I would probably just jump to Arch Linux and KDEmod and enjoy a rolling release. Or maybe Gentoo, etc. What I like about openSUSE is that it just works. It works out of the box. Except for package management.

    So the equation I have to solve is whether it is easier to:

    1. deal with the initial setup of all the stuff on another (Debian-based) distro that isn't to my liking or that just doesn't work, and then thereafter enjoy that distro's good package management... or
    2. have a great out of the box experience and the overall nicest initial OS experience I ever remember, but live every day with a package management system that isn't up to what I experienced under Ubuntu.

    Quote from the link above:
    It is almost unfair to include Red Hat in the same category as Suse because, frankly, Suse makes Red Hat look like geniuses. I dont know why a company which can create arguably the most attractive and professional looking distribution available in the Linux world has such a godawful package manager.
    So far, that is my experience exactly. Sorry to say that.

  2. #2

    Default Re: SUSE would be perfect if it used Debian Package Mangemen

    This is one of the most pointless statements I _ever_ read.

    "1) I read something but I didn't really understand it"

    "2) But I think I know XYZ is better than ABC"

    "3) I don't want to invest time in learning how ABC works, because I read XYZ is better"

    "4) Why do the people developing ABC not switch to XYZ?"

    Great logic....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    A place with no mountains
    Posts
    280

    Default Re: SUSE would be perfect if it used Debian Package Mangemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Akoellh View Post
    This is one of the most pointless statements I _ever_ read.

    "1) I read something but I didn't really understand it"

    "2) But I think I know XYZ is better than ABC"

    "3) I don't want to invest time in learning how ABC works, because I read XYZ is better"

    "4) Why do the people developing ABC not switch to XYZ?"

    Great logic....
    Hey, I was trying to be diplomatic. Should I have just said I tried the package management and I think it sucks? Or should I say that the Ubuntu forums are a lot friendlier?

  4. #4

    Default Re: SUSE would be perfect if it used Debian Package Mangemen

    Well, it's the same old story.

    Some new user, not even having gotten aquainted with the most basic principles of _any_ distro finds something he doesn't understand (yet), reads, hears, sees or whatever, that it would be "better" on some other distro and he thinks he has this great idea.

    And you know what?

    He is always wrong.

    I could get technical, but your whole preconception is just flawed.

    The basic functionality of all package managers is exactly the same, no matter if it uses RPM/DEB/*Whatever*, every one may have advantages and disadvantages, and you have to deal with them and can by experience.

    But you obviosly don't even understand the basics, so why do you think your "idea" should even be taken into serious consideration?

    BTW:

    As you seem to be convinced by the power of deb-based package management.

    - Could you tell me, why there are still no delta-debs for official upgrades?

    - Could you tell me why apt and dpkg fail miserably on removing packages with faulty scripts, because there is no "--noscripts" option?

    - Could you tell me, why it is not possible to easily restore permissions and ownerships of files in packages with apt/dpkg?

    Now it's your turn, with RPM all those features are one command away....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Lakeland, Florida
    Posts
    235

    Default Re: SUSE would be perfect if it used Debian Package Mangemen

    Quote Originally Posted by MountainX View Post
    So the equation I have to solve is whether it is easier to:

    1. deal with the initial setup of all the stuff on another (Debian-based) distro that isn't to my liking or that just doesn't work, and then thereafter enjoy that distro's good package management... or
    2. have a great out of the box experience and the overall nicest initial OS experience I ever remember, but live every day with a package management system that isn't up to what I experienced under Ubuntu.
    If you posted this kind of **** in the Ubuntu forums you'd get a lot worse replies than the ones you got here.

    Personally I can't see much difference between the two methods.

    Both are easy. Maybe you're experiencing growing pains.

    If you don't understand something start a thread stating your problem without complaining and I'm sure you'll get plenty of help.
    P5N-E SLI, Core2Duo E6850 @ 3GHZ, 2 GB DDR2 800MHZ
    EVGA 8800GTS 320MB, 2x320GB HDD
    Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    A place with no mountains
    Posts
    280

    Default Re: SUSE would be perfect if it used Debian Package Mangemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Akoellh View Post
    Well, it's the same old story.

    Some new user, not even having gotten aquainted with the most basic principles of _any_ distro finds something he doesn't understand (yet), reads, hears, sees or whatever, that it would be "better" on some other distro and he thinks he has this great idea.

    And you know what?

    He is always wrong.

    I could get technical, but your whole preconception is just flawed.

    The basic functionality of all package managers is exactly the same, no matter if it uses RPM/DEB/*Whatever*, every one may have advantages and disadvantages, and you have to deal with them and can by experience.

    But you obviosly don't even understand the basics, so why do you think your "idea" should even be taken into serious consideration?
    Seems like the same old story from my end too. I see people complaining that Ubuntu is the #1 ranked distro, but doesn't deserve to be perceived that way. Well, I think Ubuntu is winning mind share because the community gets the fact that insulting new users, even when their perceptions are incomplete (i.e., "flawed"), only hurts Ubuntu. Consequently, people tend to answer in a helpful way rather than hurl insults such as "This is one of the most pointless statements I _ever_ read".

    If you had simply said, something like, "Hey, have you considered these points:"

    - there are still no delta-debs for official upgrades

    - apt and dpkg fail miserably on removing packages with faulty scripts, because there is no "--noscripts" option

    - it is not possible to easily restore permissions and ownerships of files in packages with apt/dpkg

    If you had said that, I would be thinking, "Cool, there is a perspective I haven't heard before. I want to like openSUSE, and here's some info that helps me do that."

    Instead, you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Akoellh View Post
    As you seem to be convinced by the power of deb-based package management.

    - Could you tell me, why ...
    as if beating me at this game is going to prove anything. I already admitted I don't know much.

    All you have succeeded in doing is making me think a whole lot less of the SUSE community and increasing my interest in finding an alternative. (You'll probably say "good riddance" -- and knowing that just underscores my appreciation for what the Ubuntu forums offer.)

  7. #7

    Default Re: SUSE would be perfect if it used Debian Package Mangemen

    Quote Originally Posted by MountainX View Post
    as if beating me at this game is going to prove anything.
    On the contrary, it proves the first thing I wrote.

    Quote Originally Posted by MountainX View Post
    I already admitted I don't know much.
    But you still decided judging about something you don't know much (and in this case it would have been what you thought is "better", these were all disadvantages of deb/apt I used as examples not the ones of zypper/RPM), so this makes your statement pointless.

    (QED)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    A place with no mountains
    Posts
    280

    Default Re: SUSE would be perfect if it used Debian Package Mangemen

    Quote Originally Posted by markcynt View Post
    If you posted this kind of **** in the Ubuntu forums you'd get a lot worse replies than the ones you got here.
    That is total BS. I know because I've been on both ends of it. I have posted stuff I later realized was terrible (much worse than this, because I made an effort to make this post balanced). I have also gotten caught up in the helpful spirit with newbies who posted worse **** than you might imagine.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    A place with no mountains
    Posts
    280

    Default Re: SUSE would be perfect if it used Debian Package Mangemen

    Quote Originally Posted by Akoellh View Post
    On the contrary, it proves the first thing I wrote.
    And this proves what I wrote too.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    A place with no mountains
    Posts
    280

    Default Re: SUSE would be perfect if it used Debian Package Mangemen

    Tomorrow I'll probably be booting up with a different distro.

Page 1 of 20 12311 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •