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Thread: My Take on Linux - Will it Ever Beat Windows?

  1. #11
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    Default Re: My Take on Linux - Will it Ever Beat Windows?

    microchip, it takes one to know one, I hear it told.

  2. #12

    Default Re: My Take on Linux - Will it Ever Beat Windows?

    I used to think that Linux could not compete with Windows but OpenSuse 11.2 KDE has changed my views considerably. The key to Linux being successful is quality. Too many distributions release half finished work. Lets look at what is needed to succeed.

    - The system needs a professional look and feel.

    - The system needs to be reasonably quick and responsive.

    - The system needs a reasonable level of hardware support.

    OpenSuse 11.2 KDE has a professional look and feel, even the tools maintain the look and feel of KDE 4. Everything in the system flows together and that creates a good impression. First impressions are important because it creates interest in the system to begin with.

    The 11.2 KDE edition boots up and shuts down pretty quick now. There seems to be an emphasis on boot times lately and 11.2 is delivering on this respect. Application launch time is good and this isn't even a final release yet!

    Hardware support in 11.2 is very good out of the box and wifi issues will most likely be resolved by the final release if things continue to progress as they have been. No operating system supports every piece of hardware out of the box but OpenSuse is doing a good job with hardware support compared to other alternatives.

    I see something in OpenSuse KDE that is very competitive with Windows 7. KDE 4.3.1 looks better and is much more flexible to customize than Windows. The Novell tools that are provided are well organized and have a native look and feel in KDE 4. I think the tools are easier to navigate and understand than the tools in Windows 7. Windows does not have their tools in a very organized fashion and you have to dig to find some features.

    OpenSuse comes complete and ready to use, Windows 7 does not come stock with an office suite and all of the other applications you need to be productive. OpenSuse is secure and the tools that provide that security are well built. Windows is not secure and requires a lot of maintenance to keep it running properly.

    I was loosing faith in open source getting anywhere on the desktop but OpenSuse KDE 11.2 has renewed my enthusiasm because of the way it is developed and the resulting quality I am seeing. Too many people expect Linux to be just like Windows and do not take the time to learn how things are done in a Linux distribution. I strongly feel that if high quality standards are in place and maintained that Linux can get more market share in the desktop and corporate environments.

    I like what I am seeing in OpenSuse 11.2 and appreciate the Developer's decision to go with an 8 month development cycle. I see organized development practices and I see improvements with each developmental release of 11.2. I know that Novell wants to be more competitive in the enterprise and if the quality I am seeing in 11.2 is an indication of the overall quality of Novell products then Novell is clearly heading in the right direction.

    The bottom line is, build a high quality product and they will come to you. OpenSuse 11.2 might just have what it takes to beat Windows, it might not happen instantly but it very well could be the beginning of the end for Microsoft.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: My Take on Linux - Will it Ever Beat Windows?

    Quote Originally Posted by consused View Post
    microchip, it takes one to know one, I hear it told.
    Trolls need company too

  4. #14
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    Default Re: My Take on Linux - Will it Ever Beat Windows?

    Quote Originally Posted by wjwood64 View Post
    Stop and think about the "corporate" groups that have adopted Linux. Hollywood graphics and animation artists (and I would bet that Macs dominate there more than Linux), Boeing, and IBM (to name a few).
    Actually, Macs do NOT dominate when it comes to commercial film production. There are some good web sites on this, ... it might be worth reading up on it if you are curious.

    .. but getting back to the quote, would you say those companies you quoted are putting Linux to practical use? If so then I assume you would want to qualify, or perhaps re-word this quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by wjwood64 View Post
    Here's my take on Linux:
    ...
    2. Not practical for use.
    For I believe Hollywood graphics and animation artists, Boeing, and IBM (to name a few) try hard to be practical. Hence your own examples points Linux is practical for use.

    I think you intended to say "not practical for corporate use" ? But maybe not. I'll let you phrase what you intended.

    Quote Originally Posted by wjwood64 View Post
    And what do all of these organizations have in common other than Linux? They are highly technical and engineering oriented.
    I'll be sure to pass that to my 83 year old mother as well. She has no degree ... she did not finish high school, although while we were children she did via correspondence class managed to get her high school equivalence. ... I'll point out to her she should not be using openSUSE-11.1 Linux because she is not technical enough ... but I'm not sure I want her to be within hearing range when I try to delete her openSUSE Linux operating system because she is not technical enough to use it ... Have you ever truly upset an 83 year old grand mother? ... Its a site to behold and fear.

    The desktop PCs where I work are mostly WinXP based. The same for the OS of the desktop PCs where most my friends work. And you know what? Our organizations will give NONE of us administrator permissions. Which means we are not allowed to setup anything on WinXP. We have to use the software on those WinXP PCs as setup. We are not allowed to tune things, ... but only IT support are allowed. Why would that same philosophy not work with Linux?

    So clearly, if that is the way corporate treats their users (ie no need to configure) then does it really matter if one uses Windows or Linux?

    Quote Originally Posted by wjwood64 View Post
    For widespread adoption an end user should never have to use the command prompt.
    Why would the average corporate user have to use command prompt on Linux? Why? Corporate IT will NOT allow it, because if corporate IT is consistent with the policy they have in place for WinXP computers then they will also lock Linux computers.

    There are cities in Europe where the governments have adopted Linux on mass. So I do not believe it as cut and dry as you note.

    There IS a reason for Microsoft Windows dominance, but I believe the reason is elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by wjwood64 View Post
    Wanna make it useful?
    Catchy, but not really accurate. I guess the computer I'm typing this on is not very useful? I guess my friends who use Linux are not using useful computers? I guess the Boeing, IBM, Novell, ... etc ... are not using useful computers?

    I'm sure you have some good points, but to articulate them requires more than catchy phrases.

    Microsoft with Windows does have a monopoly in computers. And it has a monopoly for good reasons. But I don't believe your post has really picked up on the reason for it. But thats IMHO.

    Still, note again, this is a support forum of volunteers. If you have had problems with openSUSE Linux, please post in one of our support areas, and likely you will have a number of users try to help you. Soap box is only a very small part of our forum, and indeed only an incredibly small part of when this forum is about. We are here mainly to help users, not debate with those who only join to post on Soapbox.
    Last edited by oldcpu; 17-Oct-2009 at 17:05.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: My Take on Linux - Will it Ever Beat Windows?

    Quote Originally Posted by wjwood64 View Post

    Stop and think about the "corporate" groups that have adopted Linux. Hollywood graphics and animation artists (and I would bet that Macs dominate there more than Linux), Boeing, and IBM (to name a few). And what do all of these organizations have in common other than Linux? They are highly technical and engineering oriented.
    You're right... lets see, the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ (IIRC), the Tokyo Exchange, various major banks in the world (actually most of the bigger ones), the FTSE too (which is moving over to Linux soon), the French Police Force all use Linux. On the "consumer" side, Autozone, GM, The US Postal Office, Audi, a US discounter, etc all use Linux... oh wait, you're wrong This is only a few out of the horde that's using corporate Linux

    Frankly EVERY Linux commandline "fix" or requirement should be converted to a script that is attached to an iconic semaphore (i.e. a graphic image representing the command) so that it is more useful.

    For widespread adoption an end user should never have to use the command prompt. Wanna make it useful? Convert every common command line requirement to a script and attach a meaningful icon. That would go a LONG way...
    LOL you gotta be kidding me, right?. You do realize that there are thousands of command line utilities, yes? And you're gonna create "images" for all of them then stuff them under a submenu or put them on the desktop? And how are you going to do complex regex with a script that needs clicking on? What input are you going to give that script for the program to execute, considering that regex can be highly complex and have virtually endless combinations, not even mentioning that some of the command line utilities have hundreds of options. This is ridiculous and you shouldn't talk about things you don't know about

    You've been baby-fed with GUIs and are hopeless without them. This is what MS has done to you in all those years. And saying that "regular" non-techy people can't use Linux is *******s, as you've just been proven wrong by my girlfriend who happily uses both Windows and Linux and does not have a problem with neither of them, nor does she have a problem with the command line when needed

  6. #16

    Default Re: My Take on Linux - Will it Ever Beat Windows?

    I worked for a very large corporation at one time, we had well over 1200 computers at 4 locations. I took care of 300 machines not including the computers on robots and testing equipment that I helped union labor repair.

    If I were still in this position I believe I could make a solid case for a CIO to look at OpenSuse 11.2 KDE. The site I worked at had a 6.5 million dollar IT budget and they complained it was only half of what they needed! Imagine the savings going with OpenSuse 11.2 KDE! Even the learning curve could be easily addressed because they had a training room with 32 computers.

    I am not in IT where I work now and the majority of the computers on our machines run proprietary software written for Windows. The stations on the moving assembly lines could run Linux because they work off of an sql database but our wire cutting machines use proprietary software and would be difficult to get working, they seem to use an Access database and I am not sure how it interacts with the machine itself.

    Anyway, I think Novell/OpenSuse stand a good chance for success in the enterprise.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: My Take on Linux - Will it Ever Beat Windows?

    Will Linux beat Windows, maybe/ maybe not! personally I don't care. Linux is a very powerful tool (OS) which means I don't have to rely solely on Windows (OS), it's continuous crashes and problems. Linux is secure, Windows isn't. Linux handles business and enterprise extremely well and INEXPENSIVELY, Windows handles business somewhat fair but at an inflated cost. Linux is upwardly adaptable, Windows is core rigid.
    It was said you are a consultant in SAP, so then you should realize that in accordance with SAP programing model you have serious limitations on what you can do with-in a system. IBM introduced SAP back in 1972 as a cross network means of handling inter-business accounting, profiling, inventory management. It was re-implemented from big blue machines to Unix in 1983 with a few enhancements and implemented as an extremely cut down version sometime after 1991 to Windows based servers. Under each rendition, IT departments are responsible for deployment and granting SAP maintainer rights. Anyways, the UNIX versions of SAP can be run on a Linux server.

    So, an OS is an OS is an OS. Some work good in some aspects other do better in other ways. I guess we could talk CISCO too but Linux distro's are just that a powerful tool with community support, community contribution, and growing popularity.
    When your up to your a** in Alligators it's pretty hard to remember you intended to drain the swamp (author unknown)

  8. #18

    Default Re: My Take on Linux - Will it Ever Beat Windows?

    Quote Originally Posted by techwiz03 View Post
    It was said you are a consultant in SAP, so then you should realize that in accordance with SAP programing model you have serious limitations on what you can do with-in a system. IBM introduced SAP back in 1972 as a cross network means of handling inter-business accounting, profiling, inventory management. It was re-implemented from big blue machines to Unix in 1983 with a few enhancements and implemented as an extremely cut down version sometime after 1991 to Windows based servers. Under each rendition, IT departments are responsible for deployment and granting SAP maintainer rights. Anyways, the UNIX versions of SAP can be run on a Linux server.

    So, an OS is an OS is an OS. Some work good in some aspects other do better in other ways. I guess we could talk CISCO too but Linux distro's are just that a powerful tool with community support, community contribution, and growing popularity.
    Just as an FYI, SAP was created by a couple folks who LEFT IBM because IBM wouldn't support their proposal for an integrated business system. And as for Linux / Unix support of SAP, that goes way back. Frankly, part of the reason I've periodically installed and evaluated Linux is because of the ongoing support by SAP to run their application.

    As for all those who think I'm just a "troll" and so they dismiss the comments without careful consideration, so be it. I could give a rats @&&. Fact is if they can't see the genuine constructive suggestions and not just blind-sided criticism then it is plain foolishness and a testament to why Linux isn't more widely adopted. When someone raises genuine issues for consideration and ears are plugged, well, that's about all that will happen.

    As for the "thousands" of commands, my comments, IF they had been read carefully, were the COMMON commands. The COMMON things that must be done in various situations that require shell commands.

  9. #19

    Default Re: My Take on Linux - Will it Ever Beat Windows?

    Will Linux beat Windows, maybe/ maybe not! personally I don't care.
    Linux forces Microsoft to improve their product. Weather Linux ever gets more market share depends completely on the quality put into Linux distributions. Look at Mozilla, and how much of the browser market they have gained by making a better product. Microsoft controls the market by creating proprietary standards and getting people used to using them, get people to use open source standards and Microsoft would be dead in the water.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: My Take on Linux - Will it Ever Beat Windows?

    Quote Originally Posted by wjwood64 View Post

    As for all those who think I'm just a "troll" and so they dismiss the comments without careful consideration, so be it. I could give a rats @&&. Fact is if they can't see the genuine constructive suggestions and not just blind-sided criticism then it is plain foolishness and a testament to why Linux isn't more widely adopted. When someone raises genuine issues for consideration and ears are plugged, well, that's about all that will happen.
    Considering your tone I was surprised you actually did get consideration of your comments in a fair and productive manner. I see no ears plugged in any of them. So failing to get a rabid reaction are you amping it up with this last posting? Exactly what constructive suggestions did you make? Logical arguments that start from a faulty premise can never be proven anything but false. So you find that you do not understand Linux, prefer Windows and assume your experience must be Universal. Must be a shock to see that ordinary folks have no problem with using Linux.

    I think you failed to prove your point and this upsets you. Hey it is life (shrugs) perhaps if you try your post in some other Linux Forum you will get excoriated to your desire.

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