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Thread: Arranging Deck Chairs

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Arranging Deck Chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by BBQCH View Post

    I wasn't here complaining. I made an observation regarding overselling user-friendliness to inexperienced users.
    An I simply observed back that your comment was based on a Sample size of one incidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBQCH View Post
    If I'd had a successful first experience out of the box, it is very likely that I would have posted to recommend it. I made that point earlier.
    Possibly, if we accept that as being true, considering that your statement concerning Windows worked without issue back to '95 (you retracted that partially in a later post) I therefore concluded you are given to slight hyperbole. Considering you were inveigling against what you thought was hyperbole in the marketing words of openSUSE. You than were guilty of the same infraction.


    Quote Originally Posted by BBQCH View Post
    Funny that people still seem to get hot under the collar about this....
    Bothers me not.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBQCH View Post
    I didn't attempt to foist anything on anyone, just reported a negative first impression based on unrealistic expectations.

    Chillax people.

    I think this post is done.
    And you got responses that by and far were countering observations and very little fan boyism existed in them. So, if that does not make a discussion *shrugs*, than so be it. Your Personal Observations on perceived overstatements in marketing does not prove your thesis.

    As for Consused, your response in Support of the GP indicates a less than complete read of the subject matter as well as a jump to conclusions not supported by a thorough reading.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Arranging Deck Chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by MattBClassic View Post
    As for Consused, your response in Support of the GP indicates a less than complete read of the subject matter as well as a jump to conclusions not supported by a thorough reading.
    Huh, "Support of the GP"? Jargon? Your jargon, not mine.

    I read BBQCH's original post thoroughly, within the context of a "Marketing Forum". I thought he presented his own observations (the picture) as just that - observations, and contrasted them with "the World's friendliest Desktop Linux", arguably one of the silliest marketing straplines -- it's so 1990's. Why, because there will be many opportunities for a user to prove it wrong. Better to drop the "World's", I think.

    Well, Mattb after analysing the brush strokes, you finally got around to "As for Marketing" followed by a good few hypothetical what-ifs mostly about forums, ending with this statement:
    It is actually a problem keeping Forums going when Linux and openSUSE has gotten so easy that the majority of the time no one needs help.
    So, are forums the justification for having the problems... I think not. It may come as a surprise to you that the vast majority of computer users in the world beyond linux don't expect to have to trawl forums anyway. Then again, it sounded all rather acedemic.

    As for your personal comments that amount to "it's the fault of the reader", you know what they say about communication.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Arranging Deck Chairs

    Never used the term "As for Marketing" I believe the term used was "As for Consused". Now a discussion regarding the term "the World's friendliest Desktop Linux" as a Slogan could be reasonable. But in context of the Inexperienced user (one assumes this means inexperienced computer user regardless of OS), the GP (Grandparent poster) comments that a inexperienced computer user (such as himself was implied) could be turned off by that Marketing statement when his use of openSUSE did not live up to the hype. The problem is the Topic starter is not a inexperienced computer user. When challenged, he allowed as to how he loads his own Windows. This puts him outside the group that he is making the observation about.

    That is what I mean when you have not used critical reading skills Consused. You did not look deeper into the status of the poster and whether his observation was fairly made. Now if he had observed "although I am a skilled computer user, I think that the Marketing statement is in error since I had problems", then I could except that as being a reasonable discussion. Nothing against you personally but if you engage in good rhetoric it makes for a lively debate.

    As for my Statement concerning Forums that you quoted, you once again missed the point. The Forums do not justify having problems. Having little problems can remove justification for a active Forum. Think why you are here. If no one came on to ask for assistance it would feel like being the Maytag Repairmen as dramatized in Commercials years back. Boring.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Arranging Deck Chairs

    As a Addendum: The Marketing quotes that started this discussion I have not seen other than as posted here. So it is possible that they do not exist in the form quoted. I would think if they said instead "openSUSE is one of the Worlds friendliest Linux Desktops" than the discussion would be of a different scope. Does anyone have a link to the actual Marketing Statements?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Arranging Deck Chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by MattBClassic View Post
    Never used the term "As for Marketing"
    Oh, really, see post #16. I copied it from there.

    Now a discussion regarding the term "the World's friendliest Desktop Linux" as a Slogan could be reasonable. But in context of the Inexperienced user (one assumes this means inexperienced computer user regardless of OS), the GP (Grandparent poster) comments that a inexperienced computer user (such as himself was implied) could be turned off by that Marketing statement when his use of openSUSE did not live up to the hype. The problem is the Topic starter is not a inexperienced computer user. When challenged, he allowed as to how he loads his own Windows. This puts him outside the group that he is making the observation about.
    So what, I don't have a problem with it, as you do! I don't believe it matters whether he is or isn't an experienced user. He is still entitled to compare his own experience against the claims of the strapline. If he is outside the group, it may result in a more objective comparison.

    Your rather convoluted arguments remind me of a famous quote: "intoxicated by the exuberance of his own verbosity". In the circumstances you could assist the reader by working on your spelling skills, MattB.

    ...you once again missed the point. The Forums do not justify having problems.
    Nonsense, as I said, "I think not", after the statement. It seems your reading skills deserted you.

    Having little problems can remove justification for a active Forum.
    That was obvious and now you are labouring the point. However, I would prefer to lose the problems (unlikely given the development model), and if the forum dies as a result, it dies.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Arranging Deck Chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by consused View Post
    Oh, really, see post #16. I copied it from there.
    Touch...
    Quote Originally Posted by consused View Post
    So what, I don't have a problem with it, as you do!
    Not at all. I just pointed out your mistakes as you have pointed out mind (see previous touch) Unfortunately you are not one to admit any are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by consused View Post
    I don't believe it matters whether he is or isn't an experienced user.
    That is your stance I do not have to accept it as mine. If I claim to be something as a basis for making a argument such as the classic "If someone as dumb as I am can do that" the argument is made by taking the stance that I fit into the class of dumb people (Most believe it is a valid group to place me in, but I am trying to make a point) for if I am not dumb, than my statement loses validity.

    Quote Originally Posted by consused View Post
    Your rather convoluted arguments remind me of a famous quote: "intoxicated by the exuberance of his own verbosity". In the circumstances you could assist the reader by working on your spelling skills, MattB.
    No convoluted at all unless you wish them to be. As for my spalling, it is almost as bad as my typing. I have little skills with the keyboard using a strange four fingers and the occasional thumb. Though I do use the spell checker in FF and it defaults to American English which may not be yours.

    That you wish to alter the subject to something like my spelling is a argument style know as mis-direction. However I believe we have plumbed the depths of this and now it is just getting silly. The original poster has long past left and no longer is participating. So I think I will follow.

    Good fortune!

  7. #27
    platinum NNTP User

    Default Re: Arranging Deck Chairs

    guys, give it a break!

    don't you see the M$ shill/FUD spreader/troll's shift has ended..

    he just came here to get a loud discussion going..

    drop it..

    btw, s/he will be back...different name, different IP, different false
    statement to begin the fight..

    --
    platinum

  8. #28

    Default Re: Arranging Deck Chairs

    I'm still here...
    still bemused by the hostility...
    still without Internet access on SUSE :-(

    Genuinely, thanks to all for the lively debate, I am really surprised by some of the reactions, but hey...that's forums for you, and the beauty of diversity of opinion.

    I only posted so that platinum can get some rest. Buddy, no one is out to get you, and there is no agenda. At least not from me. I suggest you take a bath with some bubbles and a big glass of wine, it usually does the trick for me.

    Check my IP address, I'm in Switzerland, not Redmond.

    As much as I wish I could be financially compensated for creating this slightly tedious and taken-out-of-context thread, I am not in the employ of Bill or Steve.

    All the best.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Arranging Deck Chairs

    Quote Originally Posted by BBQCH View Post
    ...still without Internet access on SUSE :-(
    Glad you are still with us, but I had to assume you didn't come to a marketing section of the forum for a solution to your networking problem. Post it in the appropriate Help section and you should get it there.

    Good luck.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Arranging Deck Chairs

    platinum wrote:
    > guys, give it a break!
    >
    > don't you see the M$ shill/FUD spreader/troll's shift has ended..
    >

    Why is it that people believe that if someone doesn't like an aspect
    about linux they are a shill/fud spreader/troll and not just a person
    that has a different experience using a product? There was a post in
    another sub-forum about what makes people leave linux and it is this
    arrogance that linux is the be all end all and anyone with differing
    opinions and experiences are sent from Microsoft to help perpetrate a
    campaign to bring down linux.

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