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Thread: is logic a foriegn concept?

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down is logic a foriegn concept?

    Hi all;
    Been trying to get opensuse 11.1 going right for awhile now. It is not a logical system as spock would say! Who in their right mind would link printing thru an 1vp6 protocol!! under networks. It also eludes me why the system utilities to get printing, networking, and general system wide optimization just fail because things aren't set up right instead of letting you set them up right.
    FYI: if you have a cups inaccessible server due to lpd running or ivp6 not enabled in networking then doesn't it make sense to direct people where to correct the problem or just fix it instead of continuously looping!

    Anyways, fixed the ivp6 problem and now printing says it idle and ready. But now need to figure out why my wireless connection to my router has dropped from 54mbits/sec to 1kbits/sec!! This is not funny!!!

  2. #2
    goldie NNTP User

    Default Re: is logic a foriegn concept?

    > It is not a logical system . . . and general system wide
    > optimization just fail because things aren't set up right instead
    > of letting you set them up right.


    apparently your logic assume if the system were just "set up right"
    for *your* specific situation then that would be logically 'correct'
    and it would be "set up right" for all other specific situations which
    exist..

    do you actually believe that all other computer systems and computer
    user needs in the *world* mirror you own?

    is there no need to pick a generic end point for setup, and from there
    expect the administrator to hone the specifics to *this* particular case?

    i know, i know...it is the great goal to shield the user from all such
    technical stuff...great ideal, but for now Linux still needs an
    Administrator technically smarter than most users..

    you have a choice:

    - educate your inner Administrator to enlightenment

    - hire an experienced Administrator

    - buy and use a system with training wheels that pre-decides exactly
    what setup you _should_ have and locks you into a narrow set of
    hardware and software options....never mind the cost, stability,
    usability, security, etc etc etc

    the choice is yours--as it always is in open source..

    --
    goldie

  3. #3
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    Thumbs down Re: is logic a foriegn concept?

    I'm not asking for cookie cutter approach. I am asking for professionalism of the operating set-ups. Being a veteran of computers for over 30 years, I expect a basic degree of common sense found in other Linux, Unix, and (Cough) MS windoz systems.

    I have this new Laptop that simply wouldn't run other Linux flavors and allow me to connect to internet to get needed updates and apps. So I found Opensuse 11.1 and it worked without internet because Yast can't understand the mc950d wireless modem without additional files from the internet. After some manual playing got knetwork to access modem but even yast updates didn't help.
    Moved to local wireless router which required disabling knetwork. Yast configured it automatically (no idea where it put the settings) but did note that it configured it as ivp4 only and this resulted in loss of printer but gave 54mbits/sec just like the USB wireless device had.
    I am squaking because I try to configure the printer and Yast refuses because it's looking for a server. fix it's server access
    and now it can't use the drivers that designed for the printer and cuts my internet speed to nothing.

  4. #4

    Default Re: is logic a foriegn concept?

    How old are you? reason I ask is that MOST people over 40 don't use the word "anyways" (which isn't a word anyway).

    As goldie mentioned, you need to seriously read up on systems administration, and I might add learn some command line so that you can truly understand what's going on under that pretty GUI - and just in case that pretty GUI decides to take a **** on you (which is quite common).

    It's quite logical IF you understand what is going on underneath the hood.

    -Tim

  5. #5
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    Default Re: is logic a foriegn concept?

    Some openSUSE Linux concepts are here: Concepts - openSUSE

    We have a new users stickie here: NEWBIES - Suse-11.1 Pre-installation PLEASE READ - openSUSE Forums

    Many users (both Linux and Windoze and Mac) have problems using modems to connect to the Internet, and typically it boils down to both how much the manufacturer has supported creating user friendly drivers, and how also how familiar the user is with the operating system. In Linux this often also means how much the user is familiar with the specific Linux distribution (and the tools provided). I've read of users totally berate a Linux tool, when in fact they were making a silly mistake that was understandable, given their previous back ground (ie they completely overlooked something that some one with difference experience would not have over looked).

    Reference your ipv6 comment - it makes no sense to me. I have ipv6 disabled and I can print with no problem. You should not need to tie your printer to the ipv6 protocol. If you re-enabled ipv6 (to support printing) it was IMHO possibly a mistake to adopt that approach and may explain your poor internet speeds.

    Our applications area is a good place to go for help on your printing.
    Applications - openSUSE Forums

    Wireless can be a PITA with Linux. We have a forum sub area dedicated to helping openSUSE users with Linux problems. If you persist to have wireless problems, please visit that area, and experts in wireless can help you. Wireless - openSUSE Forums There are stickies at the top of the subforum area to provide more help.

    Also, the desktop one selects can make a difference. In openSUSE-11.1 the KDE-4.1.3 is a bit buggy. Many users instead have installed Gnome, or KDE-3.5.10, or upgraded their KDE-4.1.3 to 4.3 (which is a non-official update). But even in KDE-4.3 the "network manager" does not work well with wireless. In my case, I selected the rock solid KDE-3.5.10 on the installation and openSUSE wireless works well on my PCs.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: is logic a foriegn concept?

    > Hi all;
    > Been trying to get opensuse 11.1 going right for awhile now. It is
    > not a logical system as spock would say! Who in their right mind would
    > link printing thru an 1vp6 protocol!! under networks. It also eludes me
    > why the system utilities to get printing, networking, and general system
    > wide optimization just fail because things aren't set up right instead
    > of letting you set them up right.


    I disable ipv6 support at install time....no problems.




  7. #7
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    Default Re: is logic a foriegn concept?

    Quote Originally Posted by GofBorg View Post
    I disable ipv6 support at install time....no problems.
    Interesting; I've never disabled it and I've never noticed any problems.

  8. #8
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    Thumbs down Re: is logic a foriegn concept?

    Quote Originally Posted by windependence View Post
    How old are you? reason I ask is that MOST people over 40 don't use the word "anyways" (which isn't a word anyway).

    As goldie mentioned, you need to seriously read up on systems administration, and I might add learn some command line so that you can truly understand what's going on under that pretty GUI - and just in case that pretty GUI decides to take a **** on you (which is quite common).

    It's quite logical IF you understand what is going on underneath the hood.

    -Tim
    In age matters, I've been kicking around since the 60's working on all flavors of system from mini mainframes to altair & z80 class 8bit micros then finally the pc's. Problem I am having is more to with inconsistancies between what Yast installed and what the documentation says. So to follow the admin docs leaves me with half an answer. eg. Doc says you will find a drive defined in /etc/fstab and you go there and it isn't there, it's finally found in some obscure init'd file. Or doc says you can disable ivp6 during install but when you try that the kernel panics and all stops until you re-install with ivp6 on.

    As far as command line goes I am very familiar with command line use when the commands that I know will do the job exist (based on redhat, Mandrake/Mandriva, and ubuntu) but can't even find these available in opensuse . Is there a different GUI system rather than Yast? Like maybe a good old fashioned Linuxconf like all other distro have.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: is logic a foriegn concept?

    Quote Originally Posted by techwiz03 View Post
    Or doc says you can disable ivp6 during install but when you try that the kernel panics and all stops until you re-install with ivp6 on.
    I'm from Missouri on this, and don't believe disabling ipv6 will cause a kernel panic. I suspect there is something else going on here.

  10. #10
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    Thumbs down Re: is logic a foriegn concept?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcpu View Post
    Some openSUSE Linux concepts are here: Concepts - openSUSE

    We have a new users stickie here: NEWBIES - Suse-11.1 Pre-installation PLEASE READ - openSUSE Forums

    Many users (both Linux and Windoze and Mac) have problems using modems to connect to the Internet, and typically it boils down to both how much the manufacturer has supported creating user friendly drivers, and how also how familiar the user is with the operating system. In Linux this often also means how much the user is familiar with the specific Linux distribution (and the tools provided). I've read of users totally berate a Linux tool, when in fact they were making a silly mistake that was understandable, given their previous back ground (ie they completely overlooked something that some one with difference experience would not have over looked).

    Reference your ipv6 comment - it makes no sense to me. I have ipv6 disabled and I can print with no problem. You should not need to tie your printer to the ipv6 protocol. If you re-enabled ipv6 (to support printing) it was IMHO possibly a mistake to adopt that approach and may explain your poor internet speeds.

    Our applications area is a good place to go for help on your printing.
    Applications - openSUSE Forums

    Wireless can be a PITA with Linux. We have a forum sub area dedicated to helping openSUSE users with Linux problems. If you persist to have wireless problems, please visit that area, and experts in wireless can help you. Wireless - openSUSE Forums There are stickies at the top of the subforum area to provide more help.

    Also, the desktop one selects can make a difference. In openSUSE-11.1 the KDE-4.1.3 is a bit buggy. Many users instead have installed Gnome, or KDE-3.5.10, or upgraded their KDE-4.1.3 to 4.3 (which is a non-official update). But even in KDE-4.3 the "network manager" does not work well with wireless. In my case, I selected the rock solid KDE-3.5.10 on the installation and openSUSE wireless works well on my PCs.
    It stand without reason IMHO that people will have trouble with modems or serial anything... this date back to the old framing style of the 8255 serial Uart chip. Times won't change this. It took awhile of groping through the system but I did finally get the USB mc950d wireless device working at 54mbits/sec and it didn't interfere with using the printer (a Canon PIXMA ip2600). When windose crashed I had to use opensuse system recover and decided to change to the built-in wireless to access my wireless router. Thats the point when all went south.

    You are right, in that the desktop selected has much to do with problems. I have KDE 3.5.1, KDE 4.1, Gnome on my original opensuse install. Checked and all three are there still but can only access 4.1 after system recovery. xfce was also installed by system recovery but can't access it either.

    Of course when page loads at internet go from 1 second to 30 minutes right when you have difficulty it makes it hard to surf for answers! Murphy had a law for this too

    At the risk of another "how old are you..." I will say (anyways ) thanks to all the have responded and I will return for any other words from those who have traveled before me

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