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Thread: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting stupid

  1. #1
    brenwa NNTP User

    Angry I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting stupid

    Heres the deal..

    I was pretty much over the slow clunky crash prone..piece of **** that xp is...... though.. I have been a long time xp user..and I know it pretty well... as anyone does that has used it for a while....since its screwed them and it has had to be reinstalled so many frickin times!!!!!

    Its crashed more time than i can say..its screwed me out if hundreds of hours of wasted time....and let me add this before I go any further....

    Im a computer USER.. my goal is not to spend my time working on or tweaking my computer.....I want to set it up...and have it WORK period.... like most things its occasionally going to glitch..ok...fine enough...but bringing my work to a screeching halt for a week every 3 months because its decided to go insane and make me spend vast amounts of time reinstalling the entire fricking thing from scratch... IM DONE XP... but....bummer.....

    Im a web designer... I want to get up...walk to the computer and function...period...

    I also think there is a difference between folks like myself..."end users"... and "geeks"... geeks being those that enjoy endless tinkering with their computers....trying to get that last bit of performance out of them, while putting in the time and energy to truly understand how and why it all works....just as a master mechanic might with his car.... Im not that... Its simply a tool for me and i want to get from point a to point b with the least amount of BS possible.....

    btw..not slammin on the geeks..much love to the geeks...

    I have no issue taking the time to learn a new bit of tech...but my learning it is not because I want to learn it..its because I need to in order to actually function...
    to get from point a to point b...my computer use is task/goal oriented

    So I thought I would vent a bit on here... since ..well I cant do much else.... apparently i dont have permission....and..oh yes.... I cant listen to any music... well ...not unless i want to uninstall and then reinstall the sound card every time I boot the puter... I would listen to a cd...but well...seems I cant do that either....because... well....apparently suse has decided that...though it sees my cd drive..well its simply not in the mood to mount it... unlike the last time I booted the puter...and it mounted just fine....apparently it depends on its mood... Im assuming that last bit.

    Now I really really wanted to dump xp ...but so far... this has not been a fun transition, and frankly im about to say screw it....and delete suse... not much has been easy or str8forward about this...

    Im not going to go into a litany of everything I have had to put up with... but just to give you a bit of how i got here..

    my main working pc had a hardware failure..an intermittent one at that ...and after exhaustive trying to figure it out... again...i want to function not tinker... but Im talking weeks of it being a giant pain in my ass.... I decided.... ok...this puter is 5 years old...its stood me well.....but its going to nickel and dime me to death as i try to figure it out...bottom line...time to build a new one..because i need to FUNCTION not tinker

    so i jump onto new egg order all the bits.... 750 gig sata hd quad core amd processor...8 gigs of ram... fairly uber nvidia dual head video card...blah blah blah... like I said..not a geek....."user"...but i know my hardware and im building a pc that should last me another 5 years....

    let me also mention... i dont game...i use my pc to work period
    and the 750 gig hard drive is overkill for me.... since... i learned the hard way (FUXP)... not to store my working files inside my computer.... I work off of 2 usb 1tb external drives....one of the drives is my "working drive".... the other is there simply as a backup drive for the first..and depending on suses mood any given day thay are mounted of not...or fu, you cant move that today you dont have permission

    So I get all the bits in the mail..and build this new puter..I put a 125gb ntfs partition on it and slam a copy of xp on it..(just in case)

    the rest of the hard drive. I leave it to suse to set it up as it pleases... I also know im planning on running a copy of xp inside suse as a virtual machine...there are a couple of programs i still need to use...so im willing to live with that... though at this time i havent installed it yet...

    well I cant really....no cd drive.at least not this boot..who knows maybe itll be in the mood next time... one can only hope.. on an amusing note..i just realized i could hit my favorite radio station... kexp...and stream some music to listen to...but apparently...between the last time i did it and now...suse seems to have forgotten how its done....maybe its been hanging out with the dvd drive..... hmmmmmm

    now.. I realistically did not expect to make this transition trouble free..and it has not been...but I expected a REASONABLE amount of learning curve...and issues...its been anything but that

    One thing I was very excited about was finally having a fairly stable os.... thats a spine tingling thought for an old xp guy like me.....

    the install went fine... got xp in place..then suse went right in.. and now....hmmm..... transitioning.... actually using my computer..... and thats where the problems seem to come in....

    you see... I really do know how to use my puter... i truly know what I want to do with it... and you know.... i do not want it to tell me i do not have permission..basically as far as this computer is concerned Im FRICKIN GOD.....

    this has been a weeks long nightmare of permission issues....cant do this... issues....cant mount this or that...cant unmount this or that..... BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE PERMISSION.... i get there is security in place... and i have way more options with suse.. than I have with windows.... but the one option i do not have.....that for me as a USER is one of the most important......

    is the ability to FUNCTION with out the OS being in my way.....
    if I do a fresh install of xp... itll drive me nuts out of the box...with all its interference... but 20 min of turning off this and that.... and its tame and been shut up...and it "obeys" period......

    But this has been a never ending litany of what I CANT and what Im not ALLOWED to do... this os is so in my way its unbelievable.....and there is no simple or str8forward way of making it simply shut the fu** up and move the fuc**** files where i want them.....

    OMG... what a pain in the ass.... and let me stop here.. please dont bother responding with... a laundry list of why its that way..... as an end user.... like most "USERS" ....I dont care....I dont give **** one why it wont let me move something or copy something or delete something....

    if i want to do it...you are the computer...obey...and dont make jump through a million fu***** hoops to delete copy or move a file....

    Im not a rookie computer user...i do not need to be protected from myself.... and yes i do get that suse isnt just for single person one user pc's...and it can do so much more...problem.....it seems pretty much impossible to make it do less....

    As a xp user making the transition to linux and suse ....I have to say actually functioning is a giant pain in the ass..and you know...I wouldnt mind that if it meant taking a couple of days to do a little research and find out what has to be turned off or beaten into submission in order for me to be god on my pc... on xp it takes about 20 min..and Im god ... and as I mentioned.. i dont need you telling me why i dont need to be or why I shouldnt be....

    because if thats your urge..your obviously not listening....its simply the way I choose it to be... I see a ton of posts about how linux lets you control so much more.....
    but what seems imposable to find is a simple str8forward way to beat it into submission... so xp..20 min done... it does as its told... suse...2 weeks in..and im still not in charge....so a task that should take a second or 2 now takes an entire afternoon of trying to figure out why it refuses AGAIN....

    now... again. i get how Superior... suse is to windows...on alot of areas...but when it comes to doing the simplest of tasks...that pertain to simply WORKING..its a frickin nightmare... so as much as i hate to say it....what good is all that superiority if its so **** annoying to use its driving me back to xp!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Wrong section and you really should consider paragraphing things better, makes for easier reading.

    Also cut down on the dots a bit, no one is going to read it through - the only thing I could concentrate on was the amount of dots.

  3. #3
    brenwa NNTP User

    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    your the one i was mentioning....obviously not listening.......................................................................................
    ...................................................................................

  4. #4
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Let me ask you this - how long have you been using Windows and how long have you been using Linux?

    Indeed - I used Windows ever since 3.x came out and have learned the ins-and-outs of the system in the past 18 years, making it "somewhat easier" to tune things to the way I liked.

    How would you fare if you had used Linux for say, 4-5 years? Indeed.

  5. #5

    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Moved to Soapbox

    Heh, that was a fun reading, despite the dots

    Seeing this is your first post with a new OS I don't see you actually asked here for help. It would probably have been a way less painful transition if you had done so.

    You don't give any specs of the software you've installed so I can just imagine that the problems you describe are due to:

    a.- Newcomer that doesn't know what to do/how to solve problems in the new OS, no matter how proficient he/she is with the 'old' OS
    b.- Installation of beta or not updated software
    c.- Hardware incompatibility (less likely, fmpov)

    I, and most of us here, can have Suse up and running in 20 minutes (or less)
    It is abhorrent the spiritual greed of those that knowing something, do not seek the transfer of such knowledge.

    Miguel de Unamuno - Writer (1864-1936)

  6. #6

    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Quote Originally Posted by brenwa View Post
    OMG... what a pain in the ass.... and let me stop here.. please dont bother responding with... a laundry list of why its that way..... as an end user.... like most "USERS" ....I dont care....I dont give **** one why it wont let me move something or copy something or delete something....
    If you don't care to learn why other people did things a particular way, then you deserve all the trouble you get.

    Linux has permissions for a reason. *Life* has permissions for a reason. That's why machinery has finger guards, why pill bottles have child-proof lids, why cars have seatbelts.

    You may not want to believe me, but experienced Linux users are the ones who have all the permissions set, because they know why it's a good idea.

    So, you've got two choices. Rewrite the rule book as you wish and suffer, or stop telling the world it's wrong and start listening to other people. We want to help you, but we aren't here to indulge you.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Quote Originally Posted by brenwa View Post
    Im not a rookie computer user...i do not need to be protected from myself....
    Even the most season'd and experienced Linux users find it important to maintain the permissions security philosophy that is in place in Linux. They have probably forgotten more about Linux than I will ever know, and quite possibly forgotten more about Linux than you will ever know.

    The security policy is in place for good reason. It not ONLY protects one against one self (as you pointed out) but it also protects the rest of us where the computer is connected to the internet. PCs that run Linux with root permissions most of the time (or with far less control over permissions) are much more vulnerable to exterior hacking (and yes, Linux CAN be hacked) and hacked Linux computers area a menace to the Internet.

    Congratulations on your Linux efforts, but if Linux is not for you, its not really a big thing. Go with the OS that you prefer the most, whether it be winXP with which you are familiar with, or with MacIntosh (which is built on a Unix backbone and provides a lot of superb functionality), or with Linux, if you can get over your aversion to running the Linux OS prudently, as determined by users who know more than you and I will ever know about Linux.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Quote Originally Posted by brenwa View Post
    now.. I realistically did not expect to make this transition trouble free..and it has not been...but I expected a REASONABLE amount of learning curve...and issues...its been anything but that
    Reference permissions, the longer one uses Linux, the more second nature this becomes. Expert users typically do not think twice about permissions, and modify them and change back/forth between administrator with no pain nor difficulty.

    Initially as a new Linux user, one will find something does not work, and will almost immediately try again (from a konsole or terminal) with root permissions. The need to continually do that is the "bane" of a new users "newbie" experience, and is incredibly frustrating for new Linux users. We have all been thru that learning curve. As one obtains more experience, one begins to under stand the philosophy as to what requires root permissions, and what does not, and suddenly it all slips into place, ... suddenly things "just work" that did not before as easily, and it is significantly better from a "user friendliness" perspective. (Of course from a functionality/security/safety perspective it always was better.)

    Possibly the one area that still comes to bite even the more experienced users (although it bites the experienced users less) is when permissions are setup wrong by the distribution packager. A case in point is openSUSE-11.1 where there were problems in permissions for CD and DVD burning (where until HAL was fixed, there was a work around to add regular users to group "cdrom" and group "disk", in essence increasing their permissions (at a somewhat increased security risk)). That fix was easy for experienced users to find, but a pain for new and average users.

    Another example of frustrating permissions was for some scanners, where in order for some scanning applications to use the scanner, required adding the regular user to group "lp". That is not intuitively obvious, and once again, that sort of fix was easy for experienced users to find, but a pain for new and average users.

    Fortunately for both cases I gave above, a 5 or 10 minute google search finds the answer.

    In summary, permission familiarity comes with time of use (of Linux). If one does not have the patience for that, then one can migrate to a Linux distribution which puts less emphasis on security (and there are such distributions), or one can migrate to a Mac or back to a Microsoft Windows products. The vast majority of PC users still use Microsoft Windows, and if one can rise above the frustrations you adequately described in your first post (and most PC users in the world who use MS-Windows appear to rise above those frustrations) then MS-Windows is an OS that one can use instead of Linux. ....

    Good luck in what ever direction you go for your PC OS.

  9. #9

    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Quote Originally Posted by brenwa View Post
    so i jump onto new egg order all the bits.... 750 gig sata hd quad core amd processor...8 gigs of ram... fairly uber nvidia dual head video card...blah blah blah... like I said..not a geek....."user"...but i know my hardware and im building a pc that should last me another 5 years....

    let me also mention... i dont game...i use my pc to work period
    And I'd have got something in value range and "certified" for SLED, but capable for all but the L33t games, and have absolutely no trouble... the savings, they generally buy a whole new faster box in 3 yrs.

    Obviously it'd not be worth my time, doing any research, definitely not worth reading about "users" option for mount, where the auto-mounting on hotplug isn't enough. Nor should I appreciate, how the system protects me from the consequences of my cluelessness. Nor should I think twice about using a newly released OS version, when there's one 6 months older, that's been tried and tested.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    This is how I see the OP...

    "I'm a troll... I troll because that's what trolls do.... As I troll harder, I become a bigger troll... If you feed me, I'll troll your @ss away.... Other trolls don't like me trolling.... so they troll me while I troll ya all... as they troll me, they get trolled by other trolls for trolling.... those other trolls in return get trolled by me even harder... so we all have a nice trollfest going on while getting trolled by trolls for trolling as we troll..."

    /troll

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