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Thread: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting stupid

  1. #31

    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    It's a shame debates like this get so heated: I don't think it's the fault of any side specifically.

    I think the OP, while having phrased some of his post in an inflammatory way, wasn't actually trying to push the wrong buttons (ahem...).

    And I think those responses that were a little short are largely engendered by the relentless barrage of critical posts that seem to fly in the face of the blood and sweat that go into writing software for free, then providing the help-desk, also for free; "It's not ready for prime-time! It should be how I'm used to! I asked in the forum an hour ago and nobody's told me yet!"

    But the OP needs to remember: if you get into a racing car, you shouldn't complain that it has twitchy steering, manual gears and switches and gizmos for the shocks and brakes the like of which you've never seen. That's what it's implemented for - it's a highly tuned interface, designed for lower-level interaction between human and machine; intuitiveness and scope for power can often exist in mutually exclusive balance.

    And perhaps, if I may be so bold, some of the responders here should remember: linux is making great strides into the desktop market, and into the 'it just works' paradigm. That isn't to suggest that it will ever, or should ever, be as 'lowest common denominator' directed as Windows is. But tools like YaST, and distros like Ubuntu are certainly approaching the stage where most set-ups can simply stick the disc in the drive and not - at least at first - have to worry, read a manual, or ask in a forum. Posts like this are an inevitable consequence of this development, and there really isn't any shame in simply saying "This isn't the easiest and simplest distro, it's designed more for moderately experienced, or technically curious, users; Linux Mint is that way."


  2. #32
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting stupid

    On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:16:01 +0000, Confuseling wrote:

    > I think the OP, while having phrased some of his post in an inflammatory
    > way, wasn't actually trying to push the wrong buttons (ahem...).


    I would simply point out that there's no rule that says anyone has to
    respond in kind. That's what gets things out of hand - especially when
    people start taking it to a personal attack level.

    Jim

  3. #33
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    "But here's the thing: They are not inherently inferior because they don't care to learn. I know, that's a hard reality to have to come to grips with, mostly because we have come to define ourselves mainly by our curiosity and desire to learn and ability to fix and understand and tinker. They're just regular folks like us with problems and passions and the difficulty of having to decide what to do with the little time we have left when we're not trying to keep ourselves fed and clothed. Some decide to geek out and learn, others dance, while others chase members of the opposite sex. And who is to say who is more right than the other? As long as no harm is being done to anyone, every person has the right to do as they wish, without being criticized for it."

    I guess it's just my age ( old **** ) or perhaps my German American upbringing. I was always taught, you don't use somehting until you read the "instruction manual" at least twice. Like I said I'm definitely not a computer geek. I have plenty of my own problems, but I don't blame the sytem for my errors, simply because I claim "ignorance". Nothing personal, just saying one should not put the blame on someone else, when you can't figure out how do use it. Have I mentioned how frustrated I once got on these forums? I finally realized I had no-one to blame but myself.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Thank You! I think you said it quite well.

    I did not mean to insult anyone with my post. Only to explain that you can't blame the problem on the system, but the user.

    I do know how to change a tire, and the oil---but on my Tacoma Truck I'll be ********** if I can figure out how to change the sparkplugs. ;-) Boy but you guys have a strict "bad word" filter! LOL
    I never knew **** was a bad word!Hint it begins with D and ends with N once again my German American upbringing fails me. I never knew another way to say I have to sheiss!

  5. #35
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Quote Originally Posted by brenwa View Post
    Heres the deal..

    I was pretty much over the slow clunky crash prone..piece of **** that xp is...... though.. I have been a long time xp user..and I know it pretty well... as anyone does that has used it for a while....since its screwed them and it has had to be reinstalled so many frickin times!!!!!

    Its crashed more time than i can say..its screwed me out if hundreds of hours of wasted time....and let me add this before I go any further....

    Im a computer USER.. my goal is not to spend my time working on or tweaking my computer.....I want to set it up...and have it WORK period.... like most things its occasionally going to glitch..ok...fine enough...but bringing my work to a screeching halt for a week every 3 months because its decided to go insane and make me spend vast amounts of time reinstalling the entire fricking thing from scratch... IM DONE XP... but....bummer.....

    Im a web designer... I want to get up...walk to the computer and function...period...

    I also think there is a difference between folks like myself..."end users"... and "geeks"... geeks being those that enjoy endless tinkering with their computers....trying to get that last bit of performance out of them, while putting in the time and energy to truly understand how and why it all works....just as a master mechanic might with his car.... Im not that... Its simply a tool for me and i want to get from point a to point b with the least amount of BS possible.....

    btw..not slammin on the geeks..much love to the geeks...

    I have no issue taking the time to learn a new bit of tech...but my learning it is not because I want to learn it..its because I need to in order to actually function...
    to get from point a to point b...my computer use is task/goal oriented

    So I thought I would vent a bit on here... since ..well I cant do much else.... apparently i dont have permission....and..oh yes.... I cant listen to any music... well ...not unless i want to uninstall and then reinstall the sound card every time I boot the puter... I would listen to a cd...but well...seems I cant do that either....because... well....apparently suse has decided that...though it sees my cd drive..well its simply not in the mood to mount it... unlike the last time I booted the puter...and it mounted just fine....apparently it depends on its mood... Im assuming that last bit.

    Now I really really wanted to dump xp ...but so far... this has not been a fun transition, and frankly im about to say screw it....and delete suse... not much has been easy or str8forward about this...

    Im not going to go into a litany of everything I have had to put up with... but just to give you a bit of how i got here..

    my main working pc had a hardware failure..an intermittent one at that ...and after exhaustive trying to figure it out... again...i want to function not tinker... but Im talking weeks of it being a giant pain in my ass.... I decided.... ok...this puter is 5 years old...its stood me well.....but its going to nickel and dime me to death as i try to figure it out...bottom line...time to build a new one..because i need to FUNCTION not tinker

    so i jump onto new egg order all the bits.... 750 gig sata hd quad core amd processor...8 gigs of ram... fairly uber nvidia dual head video card...blah blah blah... like I said..not a geek....."user"...but i know my hardware and im building a pc that should last me another 5 years....

    let me also mention... i dont game...i use my pc to work period
    and the 750 gig hard drive is overkill for me.... since... i learned the hard way (FUXP)... not to store my working files inside my computer.... I work off of 2 usb 1tb external drives....one of the drives is my "working drive".... the other is there simply as a backup drive for the first..and depending on suses mood any given day thay are mounted of not...or fu, you cant move that today you dont have permission

    So I get all the bits in the mail..and build this new puter..I put a 125gb ntfs partition on it and slam a copy of xp on it..(just in case)

    the rest of the hard drive. I leave it to suse to set it up as it pleases... I also know im planning on running a copy of xp inside suse as a virtual machine...there are a couple of programs i still need to use...so im willing to live with that... though at this time i havent installed it yet...

    well I cant really....no cd drive.at least not this boot..who knows maybe itll be in the mood next time... one can only hope.. on an amusing note..i just realized i could hit my favorite radio station... kexp...and stream some music to listen to...but apparently...between the last time i did it and now...suse seems to have forgotten how its done....maybe its been hanging out with the dvd drive..... hmmmmmm

    now.. I realistically did not expect to make this transition trouble free..and it has not been...but I expected a REASONABLE amount of learning curve...and issues...its been anything but that

    One thing I was very excited about was finally having a fairly stable os.... thats a spine tingling thought for an old xp guy like me.....

    the install went fine... got xp in place..then suse went right in.. and now....hmmm..... transitioning.... actually using my computer..... and thats where the problems seem to come in....

    you see... I really do know how to use my puter... i truly know what I want to do with it... and you know.... i do not want it to tell me i do not have permission..basically as far as this computer is concerned Im FRICKIN GOD.....

    this has been a weeks long nightmare of permission issues....cant do this... issues....cant mount this or that...cant unmount this or that..... BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE PERMISSION.... i get there is security in place... and i have way more options with suse.. than I have with windows.... but the one option i do not have.....that for me as a USER is one of the most important......

    is the ability to FUNCTION with out the OS being in my way.....
    if I do a fresh install of xp... itll drive me nuts out of the box...with all its interference... but 20 min of turning off this and that.... and its tame and been shut up...and it "obeys" period......

    But this has been a never ending litany of what I CANT and what Im not ALLOWED to do... this os is so in my way its unbelievable.....and there is no simple or str8forward way of making it simply shut the fu** up and move the fuc**** files where i want them.....

    OMG... what a pain in the ass.... and let me stop here.. please dont bother responding with... a laundry list of why its that way..... as an end user.... like most "USERS" ....I dont care....I dont give **** one why it wont let me move something or copy something or delete something....

    if i want to do it...you are the computer...obey...and dont make jump through a million fu***** hoops to delete copy or move a file....

    Im not a rookie computer user...i do not need to be protected from myself.... and yes i do get that suse isnt just for single person one user pc's...and it can do so much more...problem.....it seems pretty much impossible to make it do less....

    As a xp user making the transition to linux and suse ....I have to say actually functioning is a giant pain in the ass..and you know...I wouldnt mind that if it meant taking a couple of days to do a little research and find out what has to be turned off or beaten into submission in order for me to be god on my pc... on xp it takes about 20 min..and Im god ... and as I mentioned.. i dont need you telling me why i dont need to be or why I shouldnt be....

    because if thats your urge..your obviously not listening....its simply the way I choose it to be... I see a ton of posts about how linux lets you control so much more.....
    but what seems imposable to find is a simple str8forward way to beat it into submission... so xp..20 min done... it does as its told... suse...2 weeks in..and im still not in charge....so a task that should take a second or 2 now takes an entire afternoon of trying to figure out why it refuses AGAIN....

    now... again. i get how Superior... suse is to windows...on alot of areas...but when it comes to doing the simplest of tasks...that pertain to simply WORKING..its a frickin nightmare... so as much as i hate to say it....what good is all that superiority if its so **** annoying to use its driving me back to xp!

    This is the problem of so many migrant Windows users. The first mistake was stated over and over. Part of the problem was the expectation. You expected openSUSE to work like XP. WRONG! You didn't take the time to learn openSUSE. You complained about not wanting to learn openSUSE, yet your a web developer. So I suppose you didn't take the time to learn html, css, xml, dhtml, and so on. Not to mention the tools; FrontPage, Macromedia, Adobe, and so on. All that "just works". No learning involved.

    Audio CD's are not mounted in the same way as data CD's. To expect such, is just wrong.

    You are right in one regard, end user are different than geeks. That is OK, but end users should still read the manual and take the time to learn what their using. I'm not talking about tweaking the hell out of your system like a geek would, but rather just learning how to use your system so that it does do what you want and not annoy you.

    When I first came over to Linux, I pulled my hair out many time as well. But I kept at it. I now have a mini library of Linux books, and keep at it. For a while my nick name was linux_learner, because I considered myself a student of Linux. I still consider myself a student of Linux. The learning doesn't stop.

    Your biggest complaint is what you can't do, what you don't have permission to do. Since you installed the system, you DO have permission. This is not XP. Even in XP, you should never run as administrator. Being able to make system wide changes, or install software with out the admin password is just stupid. All you had to do in openSUSE was open up YaST and go to Security, then add yourself to the various groups you want.

    I find the stupidity here, was you. You installed an OS with out doing the proper preperations, had the wrong expectations, and then because you didn't take time to do things correctly, you encounter problems and think it's a problem with the OS. This entire thing is a problem with you. Your laziness caused this. Your mentality and attitude caused this. Why not rant about your attitude and how it messed you up.

    You took the time to learn Windows, you took the time to learn web design and it's tools, yet you can't be bothered to learn a new OS. Then why install it? You wasted your own time.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________
    Don't ask "if" something can be done, for it can always be done. Rather instead ask "How" can it be done.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    What amazes me though is that the OP said "I just want to use my computer", then in the next breath said that he went out and bought the parts to build his own!

    That's not a "simple user" in my opinion, if I said that "I don't want to know how a car works, I don't care about the technical stuff, I just want it to work", then went out and bought a bunch of parts to build my own car and started jumping up and down when it didn't work.

    I don't think I would send a rant letter to the petrol/gas/Benzin companies telling them how their product was rubbish.

    What would amaze me more is if he/she came back after falling victim to (insert latest Windows worm/virus/bug name here) and told us how Godly he/she feels then.

    What further amazes me is that the OP can say "ass", "****", and exaile that he/she is GOD and not have it censored, but if I say "d.a.m.n.e.d" it gets censored .

  7. #37
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Quote Originally Posted by growbag View Post
    What amazes me though is that the OP said "I just want to use my computer", then in the next breath said that he went out and bought the parts to build his own!

    That's not a "simple user" in my opinion, if I said that "I don't want to know how a car works, I don't care about the technical stuff, I just want it to work", then went out and bought a bunch of parts to build my own car and started jumping up and down when it didn't work.
    I really do love all the car analogies made throughout the responses to this thread. And could not agree with them more!
    I'm a car guy (not be mistaken for a car expert by any means), and I like cars, the tech behind them both new an old.
    Not being an expert leaves me at a great disadvantage when purchasing and installing new/upgraded features for my car.
    Which basically requires me to research/study and ask questions of my expert friends what is and is not good for my money and time.
    I use the same approach with changes and upgrades to my computer.
    I don't go and buy the latest and greatest whiz bang hardware w/o researching what is/are the best bang for my bucks and time. The same thing goes with software, before I hit that download/install button, I read about it and do a little knowledge enhancement before.
    I wish I could get back all the times I've helped someone resolve issues after using their god-like ability to install/deinstall something in Windows w/o any forethought or research into what they are doing.
    I "preach" this to my kids all the time. (no doubt they get tired of hearing it!)
    I'm sure that most folks on here can say and have said that they depend on their systems to "just work", whether it's simple emailing of friends and family to high tech web design and beyond.

    Bottom line and point: Research, read, and ask questions. It does not make you stupid to ask or admit that you don't know, no matter what level of expertise you think you might be.

    As the Good Book says: Pride goeth before a fall.(paraphrased by me)
    My Karma ran over your dogma.
    Unknown

  8. #38
    djwill2009 NNTP User

    Lightbulb Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    I just nuked XP because I was so fed up with it and installed OpenSUSE and so far I think its great! Sure it can be puzzling at times but I don't mind the idea of putting in some effort to learn about it.

    Just a couple of replies to Puzzled Penguin.
    1. Sounds like you spent alot of time trying to sort XP. One of the reasons that I got rid was that it had ground to almost to a halt and I really couldn't be bothered trying to fix it because...
    2...I'm a long time Mac user (since 1994) and I really was not attached to Windows in the first place. I think that PCs are not the computers for you. You should be using a Mac. It will work perfectly 99% of the time.

    In the last six months I found that I was only using my Mac, and not touching the PC. After replacing XP with OpenSUSE, it feels like I have a new laptop, and I don't regret it one bit.

  9. #39

    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Linux is not for everyone. I think the OP would be much happier using Windows or a Mac. A true Linux user is a student and they like to learn. Anyone who just wants to use a computer and not have to worry about learning should use an OS that is made with them in mind.

  10. #40

    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    GNU/Linux != Windows.

    or...

    When I jump into a pool I want to know whether it's shallow or deep. When I break my neck because I didn't research (i.e. the WIKI), I don't go trolling on the pool constructor's forum, I seek medical advice (i.e. the HELP section on this forum).

    Whose fault was it really that you broke your (metaphorical) neck?

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