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Thread: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting stupid

  1. #121
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Quote Originally Posted by Psquared View Post

    This will be a cult distro within the next 12 months. Mark my words.
    There is a very good argument and plenty of evidence to suggest that OpenSuSE is indeed a "cult" distro. If we bounce around the forums and read some posts. If we visit the IRC channels and push the envelope a little in a way that is more traditionally associated with a customer service perspective an interaction; then yes OpenSuSE is a cult-distro. We have wild fanatics and 'administrative' staff who have several different ways of interpreting and applying rules to a community without balance, consistency, or impartiality. The rules are just not applied to the holders of "opensuse" title as they are to average consumers or first time visiting prospective customers.

    So yes... I can agree with Psquared that there is a problem. The same type of thing exists in the Gentoo, Debian, Mandriva, and other linux communities. I missed the #opensuse-marketing seminar; some of these issues regarding perception and brand goodwill were suppose to be brought up by some of the membership from North America. I hope they did. I missed it.
    " If you don't play a sport, be one! " Quote from: Max Jackson

  2. #122

    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Not sure if you read it CloudLion_ca says a lot about it..

    Linux Needs Critics - Business Center - PC World

    If they explain why, it's usually a variation of the following: "Linux is free, so why are you complaining?"

    The statement is an interesting one. It implies that Linux is inferior to commercial software because nobody pays for it. It supposes that the end-user of Linux just can't have the same expectations as with software he or she has paid for.
    Man first, have a try at Info, have a look at Wiki, if all that fails Scroogle!!!!!
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  3. #123
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting stupid

    On 5/13/2009 8:46 AM, CloudLion ca wrote:
    > We have wild fanatics and 'administrative' staff who have several
    > different ways of interpreting and applying rules to a community without
    > balance, consistency, or impartiality. The rules are just not applied to
    > the holders of "opensuse" title as they are to average consumers or
    > first time visiting prospective customers.
    >
    >


    Please, if you have any issues or see any differences in the way staff
    of the forums applies rules, by all means please say something. I
    personally don't mind hearing constructive criticism of how things are
    being run and what could be changed to make things better and I don't
    think the other staff would object either.

  4. #124
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudLion_ca View Post
    There is a very good argument and plenty of evidence to suggest that OpenSuSE is indeed a "cult" distro...
    Sadly, I am concerned that there is growing evidence as you point out for the "cult" distro outcome. What I can add is that even blue chip corporations have in the past lost considerable market share by not establishing a fairly basic marketing (i.e. not sales) or customer service "culture" throughout their organization, in every corner of their business. A project is no different. Every project has stakeholders, not just the owner's employees and the devs, but that includes all the members of it's forums, and the volunteers who man the IRC channel. Yes, and every dissatisfied user of openSUSE is potentially a lost stakeholder. We need to improve our response to the present difficulties.

  5. #125

    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    But they would tell you they're are listening I'm not so sure but then I fall into the minority that thinks KDE4 isn't ready yet and neither is P/A..

    But they did listen to the ones that wanted KDE4 now, I just think why oh why is this FED with yast offer something else.. But going on this forum there is many recommending upgrade to 4.2 but what about the silent majority presumably happy with KDE4.1.

    Sometimes we forget the ones on forums are the ones with problems, the ones with opinions.

    I never valued openSuSE for bleeding edge and use other distro's for that, I valued it for stability and yast. It was its ease of use with tools that allowed the more advanced user still a way to configure.
    Man first, have a try at Info, have a look at Wiki, if all that fails Scroogle!!!!!
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  6. #126
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Quote Originally Posted by FeatherMonkey View Post

    .... but what about the silent majority presumably happy with KDE4.1.

    Sometimes we forget the ones on forums are the ones with problems, the ones with opinions.
    Well I'm one of the "use to be silent" audience who like KDE 3.5.10 and who want to continue to use it while KDE 4.AeroXVista goes through all it's growing pains. I'm sure it will be fine by 4.5, but until then I want something that works.

    I'm also not so happy about the nasty reception people receive when voicing unhappy opinions regarding OpenSuSE. If OpenSuSE 11.1 had of been ship-shape I'd never have known how bad things have become all over. We don't need to stick our heads into the sand we need to look around and understand how to move forward and deal with the challenges.
    " If you don't play a sport, be one! " Quote from: Max Jackson

  7. #127
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudLion_ca View Post
    I'm also not so happy about the nasty reception people receive when voicing unhappy opinions regarding OpenSuSE. If OpenSuSE 11.1 had of been ship-shape I'd never have known how bad things have become all over. We don't need to stick our heads into the sand we need to look around and understand how to move forward and deal with the challenges.
    I think if one takes a step back, and looks at the thousands of help requests by users over many openSUSE Linux versions, and looks at the thousands of responses made by users to help, one would come away with a different assessment as to the openSUSE community, and the EXCELLENT RECEPTION users politely asking for help get from the openSUSE community, in an effort to solve their problems.

    However RANTS are typically given a different response. It should not be too difficult to tell a RANT from an honest polite request for help.

    One thing I have noted about the forums.opensuse.org, as it is currently run, is that the rants on the forum are not deleted. The threads are mostly allowed to continue as long as personal insults are not thrown about. Now my having stated that, try going to many other communities (and not just one or two Linux communities, but also go to laptop, graphic card, software application, and other support forums) and put in a number of different rants about their hardware and software, or about their Linux distribution, and then take notes as to each of these forums, in terms of in how many forums
    • posts are immediately deleted, or
    • threads immediately locked, or
    • users posting privileges taken away
    and I think you will find the openSUSE community is a LOT LOT LOT better than what you give it credit for. A LOT better.

    My biggest complaint about the openSUSE community is it is loaded full of those who complain with a destructive negative criticism, but can't be bothered to provide a positive contribution in return. That lack of positive contributions is truely a sad reflection on our openSUSE Linux community. Its a sad reflection that openSUSE attacts cronic complainers like flies (who have probably left other distributions because those distribution's forums won't put up with the same level of complaints).

    Now positive contributions build a community. Negative can contributions destroy it, especially if there is a misbalance between Positive and Negative contributions.

  8. #128
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudLion_ca View Post
    I'm also not so happy about the nasty reception people receive when voicing unhappy opinions regarding OpenSuSE.
    If people whine and whinge in soapbox, I will fire with all cannons - no remorse.

    I haven't seen a single thoughtful 'complaint' so far in soapbox, every single one of the posts has been nothing but filled with "Hey look at me!" -posts that contain no new ideas, no improvement suggestions - just random trash they smash from their keyboards when things don't automatically go their way.

    You know what kind of "complaint" would be nice to see?

    "Hey, I think X program could improve if they moved Z thing there, Y here and added better features to explain . I also think that it could.."

    But no, every single post if "FSCKING SUSE MOTHAFSCK I HATE WAA WAA WAA I DESTROYED MY COMPUTER WAAAAAAAAAAAAA! IT DESTROYED MY COMPUTER MY LIFE /SLICEWRIST".

  9. #129

    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    A forum can make or break a community. It is the public face of a distro, sometimes the only face or impression that people ever get. Ubuntu, for example, has grown because their forums are full of enthusiast people who really love Linux. Not just Ubuntu, mind you, but Linux as a whole. Many posters there no longer use Ubuntu and are honest enough to admit it and no one really cares. Linux is Linux after all.

    When the negative posters are allowed to take over a forum, it dies. When a distro's forum dies, a piece of it dies as well. Simple as that.

    Linux has so many good things to offer. Let's spend time on the positive stuff and just ignore all the negative **** people post. If we continue getting sucked into negative posting, we might as well go back to MS.

  10. #130
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    Default Re: I really wanted to use suse..but this is just getting st

    @oldcpu and @chrysantine

    Given that you have both analysed the current situation in some detail, and made strong defences of the status quo albeit from different perspectives, I am not sure what you are proposing should be done about it.

    On the one hand these forums allow RANTS including mindless disparagement of this distro and disparagement of other distros (that's IMO worse). Given that many, if not most, distro forums do not tolerate such behaviour, why do you think that this distro is right to do that? Does it benefit anyone?

    I could argue that those destructive RANTS encourage others to join in with more complaints. The resulting conflict, there will be one (as chrysantine's post informs us), and we all get involved from time to time, is more destructive than the original complaint(s). They go on for pages, serve little purpose, waste time, energy and members can fall out. Does anyone seriously believe that someone with the power to facilitate change is actually reading this stuff?

    Perhaps the majority, the other distros have it right, particularly those who do allow constructive criticism of their own distro. Their moderators get rid of the rubbish, having banned it up front on the forum header. After all, the rubbish makes it more difficult to catch and enjoy the good stuff. So with respect, why don't our moderators deal with this problem, I thought that's what they are appointed so to do (or am I being naive)?

    Complaints are by nature negative feedback from unhappy users, that requires a suitable channel to deal with them effectively. A good project will listen to them. They shouldn't be confused with suggestions or well articulated requirements that require a different channel, so they are not lost to the people who need them for development.

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