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Thread: KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

  1. #21
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    Default Re: KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

    Quote Originally Posted by robopensuse View Post
    The community had the chance to support KDE 3.5, they did not.
    This is not possible and you know that. Forking KDE was an option, but as you can understand, this is not he case. Remember the noise that Dolphin adoption generated. Remember the noise that the lack of split view and tabs generated. Again, we want a strong KDE4.

    Quote Originally Posted by robopensuse View Post
    Do you know how long it is since Trolltech moved to Qt4?
    Yes I do. As I said, the point is not KDE 3.5 but the lack of its features in KDE 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by robopensuse View Post
    The majority of KDE4 apps, are very much on a par with KDE3 versions and often are improved.
    Let me then rephrase it. Are important and key applications of KDE 3.x ported to KDE4 with all of their features? For example, Is KDevelop ready? Is Quanta ready? (just to name 2 applications).

    Quote Originally Posted by robopensuse View Post
    Even those without time or skills needed to support KDE3, could have paid someone to do it, they did not.
    Correct. I don't have time, but some donations...

    Quote Originally Posted by robopensuse View Post
    In short term changes do not "improve productivity", KDE-4 is improving with every release,
    That's the point. We should have a desktop that IS quite productive. And this is the point we disagree. As you said, it's my choice. I made it and I stick with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by robopensuse View Post
    If you're a stuckist, it's time to put up, or shut up.
    This is not polite Forums exists in the first place in order to voice our concerns. So, nobody should ever shut-up. Why? If you don't like what is said/written, then post your opinion as you did, as I did and as everyone is doing.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

    Quote Originally Posted by robopensuse View Post
    Typical, the situation changed in last few days.

    KDE:/KDE3: does have a maintainer from community!

    If you like KDE3, then perhaps you can check the opensuse-packaging mail list archive and see if the guy would like your help.
    Thats good news! Hopefully many of those doing the complaining (about KDE3 being removed) will join the opensuse-packaging mail list and provide some help to this maintainer.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

    Quote Originally Posted by tpe View Post
    That's the point. We should have a desktop that IS quite productive. And this is the point we disagree. As you said, it's my choice. I made it and I stick with it.
    And by forcing people to spend time in maintaining an outdated system you're hampering adoption thus slowing down the process of implementing new crucial and needed features.

    Same story as with XP, people wouldn't update - development on new features slowed down. Same with 32 bit - people didn't upgrade, developers didn't bother to implement new features, development stagnated.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

    Correct. I would prefer to have KDE4 be on par with KDE3 in features and applications and then crush the bugs. But, having KDE4 maintstream with some features of KDE3 not ported, and especialy, crucial applications, I believe that it did not worked out.

    In any case, since we all try hard to use KDE4, report bugs, donate for development etc, its a matter of time (I hope).

  5. #25
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    Default Re: KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

    My system here at work is dual boot, I have 10.3 and am testing 11.2 with XFCE. 11.0 and 11.1 did not stay on my computer because KDE 4 dose not support dual desktops (not xinerama or twinview). See threads below. I been using kde4 apps on kde3 desktop and haven been enjoying the kde4 apps. I just find that to much functionality has been removed from kde4 desktop to make it look pretty, kinda like Vista. Although XFCE is working with dual desktops if I cant get mp3 playback in amarok I am switching back to 10.3. I might try 11.0 or 11.1 again, but not going to use kde4 desktop. The KDE team went a different direction in 4 with docking panels. I turned them off in Vista, and I dont want to use them in Linux. You can not add apps, for quick launch, to the taskbar in kde4. I wounder if the KDE team is going to get more complaints about the KDE4 desktop now that Disto's are not supplying the kde3 desktop.


    Xorg and openSUSE 11.2 - openSUSE Forums

    openSUSE 11.0 Dual Desktop problems with KDE 3 and 4 - openSUSE Forums

  6. #26

    Default Re: KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

    Quote Originally Posted by tpe View Post
    This is not possible and you know that. Forking KDE was an option, but as you can understand, this is not he case. Remember the noise that Dolphin adoption generated. Remember the noise that the lack of split view and tabs generated. Again, we want a strong KDE4.
    It absolutely is possible, all the facilities are there on a plate, Mom & Pop distro's have been able to release KDE3 in past, so what makes it impossible for the Stuckist-KDE3 users not to volunteer?

    Now someone has, and is working on it.
    Yes I do. As I said, the point is not KDE 3.5 but the lack of its features in KDE 4.
    Feature sets will never be 1:1, it's not humanly possible.

    There's some confusion you have about applications. Just because KDE SC becomes version 4, does not mean, every application any developer ever wrote for KDE 1,2 & 3 has to be released by KDE 4 team.

    X offers a lot of compatability for old programs, and kde3 libs. Let's see...

    # zypper in quanta
    Retrieving repository 'Updates for openSUSE 11.2-0' metadata [done]
    Building repository 'Updates for openSUSE 11.2-0' cache [done]
    Loading repository data...
    Reading installed packages...
    Resolving package dependencies...

    The following NEW packages are going to be installed:
    kde3-kommander-runtime quanta tidy

    3 new packages to install.
    Overall download size: 4.7 MiB. After the operation, additional 17.7 MiB will be used.
    Continue? [y/n/?] (y):

    Your point was?
    Let me then rephrase it. Are important and key applications of KDE 3.x ported to KDE4 with all of their features? For example, Is KDevelop ready? Is Quanta ready? (just to name 2 applications).
    Oh, oh, see above. It does run, and it tells you what other programs to try to install to enable "missing" features.

    As for KDevelop, it would seem to be non-essential, as whole slew of applications are ported to KDE4, but again there's a kdevelop4 being offered on my system. No idea how ready it is for prime-time.
    That's the point. We should have a desktop that IS quite productive
    ...
    Why? If you don't like what is said/written, then post your opinion as you did, as I did and as everyone is doing.
    If you whine in a non-productive way, and say how things should be, don't be surprised if someone straightens up the facts where there are inacuracies.

    Now someone has actually stepped in to try to do something with KDE3, moaning about KDE4 does not help him.

    People pitching in does.

    In past, I had sympathy with keeping KDE3 and installing KDE-3.5.x was the best choice in 11.1, KDE4 ought to have been the harder to find option. But frankly now KDE4.3.4 is good enough. I think time on KDE3 support would be better invested in KDE4.

    Those who want to gripe about KDE4, should at least get their facts straight, rather than waste other peoples time on rebuttals.

    KDE4 is a productive desktop, somethings work better than the older KDE, they do need to improve application stability. But it really has improved a lot, in the last year.

  7. #27

    Default Re: KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

    Quote Originally Posted by dwestf View Post
    Although XFCE is working with dual desktops if I cant get mp3 playback in amarok I am switching back to 10.3.
    amarok support of mp3 has nothing to do with KDE, the Packman version ought to support fully restricted media codecs.
    You can not add apps, for quick launch, to the taskbar in kde4.
    Nonsense! I have done exactly that, you simply unlock the task bar and drag them onto it.

    As for Multi-monitor support, we know Plasma and Kwin have had issues with features used by all users & stability, so it's hardly surprising if a minority feature waits till the basics are in place. It appears from comments in that thread that the issue is X & Nvidia driver related, with them not supporing XRandR, which is becoming more and more essential with each X server upgrade.

  8. #28

    Default Re: KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

    Quote Originally Posted by superppl View Post
    ...and KDE 4 is already solid...
    Solid? It has crashed on me twice in the last twenty four hours, which isn't really what I call solid.

    Now both those crashes were 'return from suspend, go straight to chooser' crashes, so that's probably a single bug, but its still not good enough.

    I'm now using kde most of the time, because I think that it is the future, but the stability isn't there yet, and in that context, having something that could be relied on to work was very valuable.

    And, I'm updating kde 4 really very frequently, and some of those updates are more successful in the bug-free stakes than others, and that gets to be a bit of a pain after a while. What I'd really like to get is a distro with a kde that didn't need that level of tlc, but I'm not expecting that until I see a distro that comes with 4.4.something out of the box.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

    Quote Originally Posted by markone View Post
    Solid? It has crashed on me twice in the last twenty four hours, which isn't really what I call solid.
    And I've been using it since 11.2 came out without a single crash which leads me to believe most of the people screaming bloody murder should look at their hardware / drivers (Especially ATi users) rather than point the finger at KDE.

  10. #30

    Default Re: KDE 3.5.x not in OpenSuSE 11.2

    Quote Originally Posted by markone View Post
    Solid? It has crashed on me twice in the last twenty four hours, which isn't really what I call solid.
    Update: make that three times, in twenty four hours and I'm not an ATI user; it is an 'Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller', which may be slow, but it does just work... well, except if you use kde 4, maybe.

    Enlightenment never crashes, Gnome never crashes, XFCE (not that I use that much) never crashes. Some versions of KDE 4 have never crashed, but 4.3.3 does. IIRC 4.3.2 was stable, 4.3.1 wasn't completely. There were certainly problems with the 4.1 series, but that'll have been a whole load of other problems, screen saver primarily.

    I know now that sticking with the previous version of kde would have been advisable, but this is one of those times that you only know that once you've broken it, but given that roughly alternate versions are stable, there is hope for the next version, but it really isn't what you'd call ideal.

    KDE 3.5 has never crashed on me.

    That will obviously be the hardware, then.
    Last edited by markone; 11-Dec-2009 at 15:18. Reason: miss-tpying

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