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Thread: Disappointment, Attitude

  1. #1
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    Default Disappointment, Attitude

    Here is a link to a thread in the install-boot-login forum that leads me to ask the question "why didn't any of the very knowledgeable members of this forum offer assistance?

    information he provided, included screen shots that provided good clues to his problem.

    Yes, I tried but I just do not have the knowledge or memory to retain things I learn.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Disappointment, Attitude

    Quote Originally Posted by garyg_the_first View Post
    Here is a link to a thread in the install-boot-login forum that leads me to ask the question "why didn't any of the very knowledgeable members of this forum offer assistance?

    information he provided, included screen shots that provided good clues to his problem.

    Yes, I tried but I just do not have the knowledge or memory to retain things I learn.
    Can they be crucified or be stoned (stoned in a different way ) for failing to come to the rescue
    Remember this is soapbox

    I believe those knowledgeables are probably not using a live cd. They prefer to test the distro directly from their hd.In effect they might not be familiar how the live cd works that's why they tend to shy away. Knowlegeables please come forward to hear your side.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Disappointment, Attitude

    I looked at the thread, and the jabber disk links pointed to a site that basically hung my browser waiting for the ad banner to load. I don't like links in the forum that lead me to click-through generating sites, so I tend to brush by them, although I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here. Maybe my adblockers were interfering, but it refused to display the linked image, so I have no idea what the OP is referring to.

    At any rate, I can't offer support on LiveCD's anyways. They hate me, which is why I never use them. The only LiveCD I've seen worth it's salt is Knoppix, which seems to be designed as a LiveCD. For any other distro, including openSUSE, I prefer a standard installation CD/DVD to do things old-school.

    Give the "knowing" members time to pipe in. They'll see it and help. Though from the thread it seems to be a bit of an esoteric problem that may require a bug report. Without seeing the screencaps, I can't be sure.

    Just my 2c...

    KV

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Disappointment, Attitude

    Quote Originally Posted by garyg_the_first View Post
    Here is a link to a thread in the install-boot-login forum that leads me to ask the question "why didn't any of the very knowledgeable members of this forum offer assistance?

    information he provided, included screen shots that provided good clues to his problem.

    Yes, I tried but I just do not have the knowledge or memory to retain things I learn.
    I saw the post.

    I noted they did an md5sum check but they made no mention of doing a media check, nor burning at a slow speed, nor of the CD/DVD hardware they were using with a liveCD. But they appeared confident their media was good based only on that, and I've already made a big stickie on the need for this sort of detailed activity. I'm not going belabor the need to do this. They spend their own time and take their own chances.

    I've also never seen that graphic behaviour before. I don't like speculating more than I have to.

    But in the most part I noted they were using a LiveCD. I've always installed with the DVD, and never from a live CD. I definitely don't know anything about recovery from flakey live CDs. If a liveCD doesn't work for me, I throw it out. I don't tackle it doggedly.

    Now they want to tackle it with some determination, which is great in terms of persistence, but I don't have the patience to help here. I wasted far too much time in the past with liveCD users, and after a few posts they will shrug and post: "this is only a liveCD, I'm going to move on" ... (which is what I would do, but I would move a LOT quicker).

    Hence I prefer to spend the time I have with users who tried an actual install, users who have made MORE of a commitment, and more importantly, spend my time on a specific subject (sound/audio) where I think I might have a bit more to offer. The volume on this forum is FAR to big to try help every user, and hence one has to set their own priority/filter as to what area's one extends help in.

    You know, I have my own gripe here. This is soap box, and I too have disappoint, attitude re: your post. I don't like the "berate" rather than "encourage" approach that you decide to chose.

    I don't always succeed helping users get their audio working. But many times I am the only one trying to help. You don't see me berating others for not chiming in. I regularly do a search for zero replies to a post by going to:
    Search > Search Options > Find Threads With (and select "At Most" 0 replies).

    There are MANY threads with 0 replies.

    A forum is a volunteer effort, and everyone volunteers the best they can, in areas where they think their limited volunteer time is well spent. Sometimes, there simply is no one available to help in a specific area. Thats a sad fact of life.

    Berating volunteers, ... berating experienced members for failing to reply to every thread, despite hundred's of posts to the contrary, is simply a bad attitude, and IMHO is likely to simply chase away the experienced users.

    There are more positive ways to encourage experienced user participation. Putting the experienced users "down", which is what I see in that Title you selected (coupled with the post you made) is IMHO not the way to go about it getting experienced users to help. It makes me, after over a thousand posts trying to help, want to throw in the towel and say to heck with this after reading what I perceive to be an ungrateful post.

    Anyway, thats my rant gripe. I do NOT like a berating approach. I think it accomplishes little with volunteers who are already trying hard.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Disappointment, Attitude

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcpu View Post
    I don't like the "berate" rather than "encourage" approach
    Hey garyg_the_first, ... let me re-word the above, to try and make my point better.

    Rather than a negative approach with a "Subject: Disappointment,Attitude" that globally "puts down" everyone who you refer to as "very knowledgeable member", where many are spending enormous amounts of time, trying to help users, I think a far better approach is to try encourage.

    I think it would have been MUCH MORE effective if your post had been like this (note this is "fictional" suggestion, and not a real post):
    Title: How to Improve Service to all members?

    Hey guys, I have noted despite efforts to the contrary, a large number of posts are still going unanswered. For example, Here is a link to a thread in the install-boot-login forum, where the user did not get much assistance. I believe the information he provided, included screen shots that provided good clues to his problem.

    I tried but I just do not have the knowledge or memory to retain things I learn.

    So what can we do as a team to help in cases like this?

    Perhaps we could have a thread, with a discussion on methods on how we can focus the experience of all our users, including our more experienced and more knowledgeable members, to try ensure that cases like this don't slip through the cracks? And then implement an improved methodology?

    Maybe some automated process of a reply after a few days with no reponse? Maybe assign areas of responsibility to some of our keen and appreciated volunteers, for specific forum sub areas?

    What do you all think?
    IMHO a post like I suggested has a far better chance of accomplishing something useful than a negative approach ....

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Disappointment, Attitude

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcpu View Post
    Anyway, thats my rant gripe. I do NOT like a berating approach. I think it accomplishes little with volunteers who are already trying hard.
    Ture word oldcpu...

    Gary, one thing to take in account is that we all live in different timezones, don't have ALL the answers in a finger snip and also have our day jobs and lives ... Sometimes things take time! This forum is built on people like you & me...

    You speak about attitude, but returning this too you in asking where your attitude is at when you are expecting, if not demanding an instant reaction...?
    Have a lot of fun!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Disappointment, Attitude

    First, let me apoligize for offending anyone. I tried to word the post so that it would not be offensive to anyone or put anyone down - that was never my intention.

    Oldcpu
    Thank you for your words of wisdom

    else_where,
    I sometimes forget that even though most of us are running opensuse, there are a world of different configurations, I, too, cannot tolerate the web sites loaded with pop-ups and ad's; I did not experience what you did when I accessed that link -- sorry. If we could include attachments here, then sites like jabber-disk would not have to be used to provide a picture of a problem.

    -----------
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic31;
    You speak about attitude, but returning this too you in asking where your attitude is at when you are expecting, if not demanding an instant reaction...?
    You make a valid point about time-zones; I need to keep in mind that this is a world wide forum. Please do not interpret my attitude as "demanding", it is not.
    ----------

    I thought the issue with Inzaghi89's problem was a video/ monitor - video driver mismatch not a difference between "live cd" and the install- media. If you read his last post it looks like he is finally asking for help changing video drivers

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Disappointment, Attitude

    I read the post and there is a couple reasons why I didn't respond.
    1.You are limited with the liveCD on what video drivers you can use.
    Most all the time I use DVD.
    2." the biggest reason" I don't download anything I'm not sure about. Must still be my windows days making me paranoid.
    3.I thought it was kind of hard to understand what he had going on.

    If he downloads the DVD he would have to do install.
    With the DVD you can specify manually to use the fbdev driver. Which isn't available with live CD.

    On the boot splash screen.
    Go to the command line and enter.
    sax2 -r -m 0=fbdev
    Which should get him booting ok with the Nvidia card.
    Then after install he could configure his driver.
    But that is not what he was asking.
    Inquiring minds want to know?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Disappointment, Attitude

    I don't think most help-seekers realize that many would be help-providers may be limited by solving their own problems. Problem X on Y equipment with Z solution may not be helpful with different Y equipment. I know that I only know enough sys admin to do what I need to do on my own system. I almost feel bad about not offering much help back, but I tend to be a specialized user - I use Linux mostly for calculations and am only now about to get into multi-media stuff and virtualization as I plan a complete migration to Linux OS including the entertainment machine.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Disappointment, Attitude

    Quote Originally Posted by garyg_the_first View Post
    Here is a link to a thread in the install-boot-login forum that leads me to ask the question "why didn't any of the very knowledgeable members of this forum offer assistance
    Because sometimes we don't notice the thread.
    Because sometimes we don't have time to read the thread.
    Because sometimes we don't have the resources (like a LiveCD) to answer the thread appropriately.

    or, shockingly enough,

    Because sometimes we don't know the answer.


    Please keep in mind that this is a forum run and maintained by its members and staff, most of whom volunteer their time to it because they want to, not because they have to.
    I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. ... Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

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