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Thread: The saddest thing.

  1. #1
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    Default The saddest thing.

    Ok before I get started I want to say that I am running openSUSE 11 using KDE3 and have found it to be the best openSUSE release yet.

    That said, I have seen not just in this forum, but in many others, a recurring theme. aka SuSE 11 sucks or the many variations of that statement.

    Here is what I see.

    People download the live CD, install it complain about KDE4 and determine that openSUSE sucks, or they do download the DVD, but install KDE4 and determine that openSUSE sucks........

    The recurring theme? KDE4

    Then of course the usual.........well you have to add the factory repositories and then KDE4 will somewhat work and all will be good.

    The problem as I see it is of course KDE4, not the fact that it is available, but the fact that it is the default on the CD, and the fact that it just isn't stated clearly enough that KDE4 is without a doubt beta software, not stable, not complete, not fully functional and should only be used for "testing purposes".

    In short it is my humble opinion that KDE4 should never have been the default on the CD, it should be clearly marked as for testing only on the DVD.

    I feel it is doing more harm to openSUSE the way it was included. Not the fact that it is included, but the way it was included.

    I have attempted to steer folks away from it. I am tired of the openSUSE sucks comments, openSUSE does not suck, it is a great release. KDE4 sucks, the problem is getting people to make the distinction between the two.

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    Default Re: The saddest thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by brucecadieux View Post
    ...
    The problem as I see it is of course KDE4, not the fact that it is available, but the fact that it is the default on the CD, and the fact that it just isn't stated clearly enough that KDE4 is without a doubt beta software, not stable, not complete, not fully functional and should only be used for "testing purposes".

    In short it is my humble opinion that KDE4 should never have been the default on the CD, it should be clearly marked as for testing only on the DVD.

    I feel it is doing more harm to openSUSE the way it was included. Not the fact that it is included, but the way it was included.

    I have attempted to steer folks away from it. I am tired of the openSUSE sucks comments, openSUSE does not suck, it is a great release. KDE4 sucks, the problem is getting people to make the distinction between the two.

    I feel what you are saying and I have the same sentiment as I would love to see a new re-mastered version of openSUSE 11.0 brought out.. for one including KDE 4.1, and maybe also making greater note that KDE 4.x is still 'under construction'.

    See this poll : Does openSUSE 11.0 need a re-asterd version? Let us know!? - openSUSE Forums
    It's a fifty-fifty (sort off) split in those for and against...

    KDE 4 is not set as default btw.. but is is a tempting choice for those wanting to venture new waters... sadly at the moment with 4.0 the experience is taunting for most.

    It would be sad if the KDE 4.0 preview costs openSUSE more than it gains... On the other hand there are many improvements as well.
    Hoping there will be some update or new release for those giving openSUSE 11.0 a roll...

    -Wj
    Have a lot of fun!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The saddest thing.

    It is sad. A large commercial or political mistake or error of strategy -- whatever.
    But the result is: bad for the uptake rate of Suse. If I was a brand new newbie I'd probably be using Fedora or Ubuntu now.
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    Default Re: The saddest thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic31 View Post
    I feel what you are saying and I have the same sentiment as I would love to see a new re-mastered version of openSUSE 11.0 brought out.. for one including KDE 4.1, and maybe also making greater note that KDE 4.x is still 'under construction'.
    The release of openSUSE-11.1 will be sooner than the normal 9-month cycle. It is planned for Dec-2008 (ie within 6-months), so I think that does show the KDE-4 instabilities are prompting Novell/SuSE-GmbH to take some action. They are also a BIG kde supporter, they are encouraging KDE4 updates, which is another way they are taking action.

    I agree with the sentiment that it is unfortunate there was no KDE-3.5.9 installation CD.

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    Default Re: The saddest thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by swerdna View Post
    .. If I was a brand new newbie I'd probably be using Fedora or Ubuntu now.
    Well, as I read the Ubuntu 8.10 release had enough issues too.. Many reverted to a previous version stating the latest release was unstable and slow in comparison.

    Fedora is more a developer release than openSUSE and Ubuntu together, so the experience will vary there strongly too.

    My view is that there has been allot of development going on (catching up, implementing and producing new elements) and it's talking more time than usual for things to crystallize.

    As I'm no old f art in the Linux world it's quite a relative view, but that is the vibe I'm getting. Hopefully we are (and I think we are) again heading for a time that offers more stability.
    Have a lot of fun!

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    Default Re: The saddest thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcpu View Post
    I agree with the sentiment that it is unfortunate there was no KDE-3.5.9 installation CD.
    Reading my own post, and then thinking about Magic31 and brucecadieux posts, it makes me wonder if, rather than re-release openSUSE-11.0 in a remastered version for DVD/CD, how about a single release of an openSUSE-11.0 KDE-3.5.9 live CD? (and not wait for Dec)?

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    Default Re: The saddest thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcpu View Post
    Reading my own post, and then thinking about Magic31 and brucecadieux posts, it makes me wonder if, rather than re-release openSUSE-11.0 in a remastered version for DVD/CD, how about a single release of an openSUSE-11.0 KDE-3.5.9 live CD? (and not wait for Dec)?
    Seems like a plan oldcpu! You can make this happen?

    Maybe also place a BIG NOTE!! on the download page that KDE4 is available but not recommended for new users.
    Have a lot of fun!

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    Default Re: The saddest thing.

    Unstable !? It may be at times. Though it wouldn't send me running in the direction of a different distro. I have found 4.0.4 to be ALMOST spot on and cannot get 4.1 to work at all on my box. I have kde3 installed too, using it now.
    Agreed, that new users are going to find the 4 experience somewhat dissapointing. And it's more likely to make their Linux experience as a whole, BAD, and lead them back to M$ - rather than just put them off Suse, they are not likely to understand the whole kde 3 and 4 debate.

    Suse is great for me. As for a re-master, I don't really think it's needed. Maybe a much clearer statement about installing 4 should have been in the install DVD though.!
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    Default Re: The saddest thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic31 View Post
    You can make this happen?
    Me? No.

    I can only wish.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The saddest thing.

    I've inserted the KDE4 lice-cd into my drive and after it has loaded, I've installed the OS onto my PC. It went as a charm. Just after successfull install and updates, I've opened Yast and I installed KDE3.5.9 which runs perfectly. Even with FireFox 3 I still have to see the first problem. OpenSuSE 11 is for me a rock-solid OS. The kernel upgrade from 2.6.25.5 to 2.6.25.9 gave the OS another performance boost. So comments that 'opensuse sucks' are really pathetic. If there are complaints about components true arguments need to be used and not pathetic statements!

    OpenSUSE rocks like OSS does!

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