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Thread: the beat goes on..

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Posts
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    Default the beat goes on..

    it is working....that is, they will kill off nntp (and the presumably
    'old heads' who wanna use that means)...or at least they are so very
    close to running me off..

    why, the group named General (and some others) has(have) no appeal to
    me....which is not a problem as 'unsubscribe' is _real_ easy in
    Thunderbird....but, then i go to Applications (or any of the others) and
    find LOTS of threads popping up with subject lines beginning with "Re:"
    and finding a post answering a question that i can't see..

    so far the ONLY ways to view the actual thread (prior to it being moved)
    to find the question AND the previous answers is to go to the web forum
    (which i just don't intend to do) or search though ALL the other fora to
    find the snipped stub..

    i just did that and find too many abandoned threads to count in
    General...all being moved by one, i sure well meaning, person
    "kastorff"....s/he is really good at "cleaning up" some of the talk
    places and making sure everyone follows the what-is-posted-where rules..

    i wondered what else he is contributing to the cause, and joined the web
    forum and searched up all his postings....it is about (i didn't actually
    count, but i guess) 30 messages moved to 1 with any other content, at
    all.....maybe i'm wrong but it seems like he is (or has appointed
    himself) as the what-is-posted-where-Police, only..

    which is perfectly ok with me....assuming it is perfectly okay with the
    strategy Novell has outlined for what they are trying to do with the
    'community'...

    i WONDER, however, if you have the influence and/or the technical
    expertise necessary to try to chart another course....i guess it is a
    matter of first building a method in which web side moved posts are
    _echoed_ in their new home (so nntp folks have a CLUE what is going on
    in the thread)...

    notice i didn't say _moved_ because i heard often enough already how
    difficult to impossible that is....but, it is NOT impossible for a
    patient person intent on moving a thread to:

    - open a nntp client

    - open a new post to the desired _new_ location

    - copy message text and paste EVERY existing thread posting into the new

    - press send

    - go to the old thread and post the thread closed as usual (in the web
    environment if desired...even if slower)

    - note: it will NOT be necessary to also move the thread in the web
    environment...just delete them in the old (wrong) place...because, the
    entire thread will be shown in the opening post in the correct place..

    will the new thread with several posts in the originating it be "as
    pretty" as the old way? No. So?

    sure it will be a LITTLE more difficult (i guess) than the current way
    which is just killing me...

    i'd guess some bright person might even be able to write a script which
    would automagically do ALL of that...the staff might only have to click
    on the thread source (in the wrong place) and spin the dial to where
    s/he wishes it to be...and click ok!!

    AND, i'd guess it might be possible to in that same two click script an
    information update to 'bot' to periodically crawl the nntp server
    looking for any posts to the (script named) abandoned threads, and
    auto-add them to their correct/new location..

    i know i'm just one....but, i'm afraid, for me the handwriting is on the
    wall....i'm about ready to bail...it is just too hard.

    --
    DenverD (Linux Counter 282315)
    A Texan in Denmark

  2. #2

    Default Re: the beat goes on..

    Its the same on both sides ;-)

    Can't please either sides it seems Broken Threads - openSUSE Forums
    Man first, have a try at Info, have a look at Wiki, if all that fails Scroogle!!!!!
    If I've helped click on the Rep button I don't know what it does but it sounds cool.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default Re: the beat goes on..

    DenverD wrote:
    > it is working....that is, they will kill off nntp (and the presumably
    > 'old heads' who wanna use that means)...or at least they are so very
    > close to running me off..
    >
    > why, the group named General (and some others) has(have) no appeal to
    > me....which is not a problem as 'unsubscribe' is _real_ easy in
    > Thunderbird....but, then i go to Applications (or any of the others) and
    > find LOTS of threads popping up with subject lines beginning with "Re:"
    > and finding a post answering a question that i can't see..
    >
    > so far the ONLY ways to view the actual thread (prior to it being moved)
    > to find the question AND the previous answers is to go to the web forum
    > (which i just don't intend to do) or search though ALL the other fora to
    > find the snipped stub..
    >

    You are right, the beat does go on and the drone of the drum is over the
    same issue. The staff is trying to work with both NNTP users and web
    users so that both protocol users can use the reader they like. The main
    issue is that certain NNTP users complain about threads being moved as
    well as certain web users complaining about broken threads appearing.
    Seems like those certain users on both sides are a small minority and I
    would hate to see the voice of the small effect the majority (and I
    don't mean NNTP vs web users total).
    > i just did that and find too many abandoned threads to count in
    > General...all being moved by one, i sure well meaning, person
    > "kastorff"....s/he is really good at "cleaning up" some of the talk
    > places and making sure everyone follows the what-is-posted-where rules..
    >

    Yes, there are certain places to post and General is under community.
    Community is for talking about things, not helping on issues. That is
    why there is a help section and we do not want General to become a catch
    all for users.
    > i wondered what else he is contributing to the cause, and joined the web
    > forum and searched up all his postings....it is about (i didn't actually
    > count, but i guess) 30 messages moved to 1 with any other content, at
    > all.....maybe i'm wrong but it seems like he is (or has appointed
    > himself) as the what-is-posted-where-Police, only..
    >

    You need not concern yourself on what he or any other staff member has
    contributed. Since the board opened a month ago, a lot of the staff is
    busy doing staff functions which takes time out of helping. Hey, just
    look at my posts, there may not be a lot of help threads since the merge
    but check the archives and there will be. Point is, posts are indicitive
    of contributing as there are other things to do when running a board
    besides trying to help, hopefully that is what other users can do for now.
    > which is perfectly ok with me....assuming it is perfectly okay with the
    > strategy Novell has outlined for what they are trying to do with the
    > 'community'...
    >

    Novell has _no_ strategy since they _are not_ involved. This is a
    community forum just like a community release.
    > i WONDER, however, if you have the influence and/or the technical
    > expertise necessary to try to chart another course....i guess it is a
    > matter of first building a method in which web side moved posts are
    > _echoed_ in their new home (so nntp folks have a CLUE what is going on
    > in the thread)...
    >

    What did you do, give people a week? Look the issues between NNTP and
    HTTP will be worked on but in my estimation will take a while to figure
    everything out. It seems like you have an unrealistic idea of when
    things should be fixed by.
    > notice i didn't say _moved_ because i heard often enough already how
    > difficult to impossible that is....but, it is NOT impossible for a
    > patient person intent on moving a thread to:
    >
    > - open a nntp client
    >
    > - open a new post to the desired _new_ location
    >
    > - copy message text and paste EVERY existing thread posting into the new
    >
    > - press send
    >
    > - go to the old thread and post the thread closed as usual (in the web
    > environment if desired...even if slower)
    >

    Things don't work like that on the web side so moving threads get worked
    on differently. And I'm sorry but I doubt 1 staff member is going to
    paste every post that was written into the new thread. That is way to
    time consuming and also unrealistic when a user can just pop open their
    NNTP client and look at the original thread to see what was written already.
    > - note: it will NOT be necessary to also move the thread in the web
    > environment...just delete them in the old (wrong) place...because, the
    > entire thread will be shown in the opening post in the correct place..
    >

    Be even more of a mess that way as it kills the whole original flow of
    who wrote what to who, what they were replying to, etc.
    > will the new thread with several posts in the originating it be "as
    > pretty" as the old way? No. So?
    >

    Nothing to do with looks.
    > sure it will be a LITTLE more difficult (i guess) than the current way
    > which is just killing me...
    >

    A little?
    > i'd guess some bright person might even be able to write a script which
    > would automagically do ALL of that...the staff might only have to click
    > on the thread source (in the wrong place) and spin the dial to where
    > s/he wishes it to be...and click ok!!
    >

    Same thing with the NNTP side, we would need to find someone that knew
    the protocol and the software and have then create the mod. Would
    probably take the same amount of time as getting the NNTP side to move
    and cancel/delete threads.
    > AND, i'd guess it might be possible to in that same two click script an
    > information update to 'bot' to periodically crawl the nntp server
    > looking for any posts to the (script named) abandoned threads, and
    > auto-add them to their correct/new location..
    >

    You have a lot of ideas and thoughts on how easy all these changes are,
    why not see if you can create these fixes to help better the community?
    > i know i'm just one....but, i'm afraid, for me the handwriting is on the
    > wall....i'm about ready to bail...it is just too hard.
    >
    > --
    > DenverD (Linux Counter 282315)
    > A Texan in Denmark

    That is your feeling and your choice. You'll need to make the decision
    on what _you_ should do for yourself.

  4. #4

    Default Re: the beat goes on..

    Seems like those certain users on both sides are a small minority and I
    would hate to see the voice of the small effect the majority (and I
    don't mean NNTP vs web users total).

    Seems we're the minority that like to read threads in context.

    Oh well, I have to say I would thought that would be the majority.

    I stepped down over this because it was rushed in and the implications where never thought about.
    Man first, have a try at Info, have a look at Wiki, if all that fails Scroogle!!!!!
    If I've helped click on the Rep button I don't know what it does but it sounds cool.

  5. #5

    Default Re: the beat goes on..

    I even suggested a more generic forum to assist the lack of moving needed, but that got dismissed.
    Man first, have a try at Info, have a look at Wiki, if all that fails Scroogle!!!!!
    If I've helped click on the Rep button I don't know what it does but it sounds cool.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: the beat goes on..

    FeatherMonkey wrote:
    >> Seems like those certain users on both sides are a small minority and I
    >> would hate to see the voice of the small effect the majority (and I
    >> don't mean NNTP vs web users total).

    >
    >
    > Seems we're the minority that like to read threads in context.
    >

    I don't see what the actual issue is on the web side. All the broken
    threads have been and are getting merged now so you do get to see
    threads in context.
    > Oh well, I have to say I would thought that would be the majority.
    >

    The minority I was speaking about was people coming out and saying it is
    an issue. So far there has been a minority of users saying it was an
    issue on both sides of the argument.
    > I stepped down over this because it was rushed in and the implications
    > where never thought about.
    >
    >

    And that is/was your choice. I don't believe so, I see the upside to
    NNTP as well as the downside to it. I say the same can be said on the
    web side and I think we are doing a pretty good job so far trying to
    delicately balance the 2.

    What "implications" do you see besides broken threads that later get
    merged together with the original content?

  7. #7

    Default Re: the beat goes on..

    Honestly you have threads around here from both sides. You tried to please both but I'm not sure you managed it.

    You seem to of created a greater load for the moderation team with little benefit. It seems moderators and I believe even your self admitted, have less time actually helping.
    Man first, have a try at Info, have a look at Wiki, if all that fails Scroogle!!!!!
    If I've helped click on the Rep button I don't know what it does but it sounds cool.

  8. #8

    Default Re: the beat goes on..

    If you actually had a generic catch all you wouldn't need to move as many posts, people could still ignore them if they didn't like the idea.

    Moderators or such like could give assistance and gently point the poster in the generic catch all to the correct place. But these are arguments I've voiced before and where pointless first time around.
    Man first, have a try at Info, have a look at Wiki, if all that fails Scroogle!!!!!
    If I've helped click on the Rep button I don't know what it does but it sounds cool.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: the beat goes on..

    FeatherMonkey wrote:
    > Honestly you have threads around here from both sides. You tried to
    > please both but I'm not sure you managed it.
    >
    > You seem to of created a greater load for the moderation team with
    > little benefit. It seems moderators and I believe even your self
    > admitted, have less time actually helping.
    >
    >

    But I don't see that as the fault of NNTP use. I see that the fault of
    members posting threads where they shouldn't be. The same would be done
    if it was a web only interface honestly so i don't see the difference there.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: the beat goes on..

    FeatherMonkey wrote:
    > If you actually had a generic catch all you wouldn't need to move as
    > many posts, people could still ignore them if they didn't like the
    > idea.
    >
    > Moderators or such like could give assistance and gently point the
    > poster in the generic catch all to the correct place. But these are
    > arguments I've voiced before and where pointless first time around.
    >
    >

    The problem with a generic catch all is that it catches all. ow you have
    every post there and no one using the correct forum/subforum. It would
    be more of a chaos there. That is just my opinion though.

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