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Thread: Dependencies question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Default Dependencies question

    Hi. This is something that I've been wondering about for a while now. I wasn't sure what forum to put it in because it deals with no specific program. I suspect this is the wrong one so go ahead and move it.

    On more than one occasion I have installed something then later tried to remove it, and come up with a dependency conflict pertaining to something that was already in the system before I ever installed what I was now trying to remove.

    Confusing mouthfull.

    Anyway I hope you can understand what I'm asking.

    Why does this happen and what does it signify? What are the consequences of removing the newer package despite the conflict when this type of thing occurs?

    My natural reaction would have been that what went in last could come right back out with no problem.

    Is it possible that this only refers to functionality the newer software added to the already installed programs that will be lost, or will it somehow break the system even though it wasn't broken without the newer packages before they were installed?


    Blither...

  2. #2

    Default Re: Dependencies question

    hum.. I must admit that I've some difficulties to understand your post

    But I think your problem is related to hard dependancies (obligatory, _must_ be there if you want the program to run correctly) and soft-dependancies (recommended, add some functionnalities to the program, but can run without).

    I think you have added a package which is a soft-dependancy of anoher one. When you try to remove it, the package manager tell you that this "soft" dependancy will be broken, am I right ?

    Btw, if you have any dependancies problem, try "zypper ve" (verify) to fix your RPM system.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Dependencies question

    I was afraid it wasn't too clear, but your response concerning soft dependencies sounds reasonable to me.

    Say you have openSuse and maybe some applications installed.

    Then you go into Yast and install something new.

    Then you decide you don't want the new software you just installed and try to remove it,

    but you get dependency conflicts concerning the software that was already in the system before you installed this new software.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Dependencies question

    User installs package X. Package X depends on Y, which was already part of the system.

    Uninstall package X, and it wants to uninstall Y. Is this a problem?

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Dependencies question

    No, I don't think so.

    User installs package X then without changing anything else in the system decides to remove same package X and gets dependency problem concerning another package already existing in the system.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Dependencies question

    Thread moved to Applications
    Last edited by kastorff; 13-Jul-2008 at 00:00.
    Keith Kastorff

  7. #7

    Default Re: Dependencies question

    I perfectly understand your frustration, but openSUSE is not Ubuntu/Debian...

    Suse lame depencies are frakin bad joke, without autoremove, but with stupid paterns witch often install many unnecessary stuff or removes half of the system and you don't even notice..

    For example try to remove xgl and xgl-hardware-list and you will see. Sometimes it removes Compiz or want to install KDE libs and that is with almost all...very strange behaviour...

  8. #8

    Default Re: Dependencies question

    Spyhawk's soft-deps explanation is the one that makes more sense. But if you can give an example we could confirm.
    Quote Originally Posted by LH6205 View Post
    For example try to remove xgl and xgl-hardware-list and you will see. Sometimes it removes Compiz or want to install KDE libs and that is with almost all...very strange behaviour...
    Code:
    $ LANG=C zypper rm xgl
    Reading installed packages...
    
    The following package is going to be REMOVED:
      xgl
    
    
    After the operation, 5.0 M will be freed.
    Continue? [YES/no]: n
    $ LANG=C zypper rm xgl-hardware-list
    Reading installed packages...
    
    The following packages are going to be REMOVED:
      xgl-hardware-list xgl
    
    
    After the operation, 5.0 M will be freed.
    Continue? [YES/no]: n
    # rpm -qR xgl | grep xgl-hardware-list
    xgl-hardware-list
    # rpm -qa "*compiz*" | sort
    compiz-0.7.4-31.1
    compizconfig-settings-manager-0.7.4-28.1
    compiz-fusion-plugins-main-0.7.4-28.1
    compiz-kde-0.7.4-31.1
    compiz-manager-0.0.1_git080201-24.1
    libcompizconfig-0.7.4-28.1
    python-compizconfig-0.7.4-28.1
    Looks correct to me...

  9. #9
    Delpine NNTP User

    Default Re: Dependencies question

    How does a new user formulate a dependency strategy? I just installed Amarok 2.2.1 and I was faced with a bunch of choices. I chose install with vendor change when possible.

    Is this right? A few things concern me:

    1. I uninstalled about 20mb and installed roughly 300-400mb worth of dependencies just to get a new version of the same program. My drive is going to fill up fast at this rate.

    2. It doesn't seem reasonable to take 1/2 hr to install a 20mb program...

    3. I don't know what I'm doing and installing a new version of amarok seemed to affect every other program in the OS...a bit worrisome lol...

    I'm learning about strong/weak dependencies, but don't don't understand how to identify them in the installation process.

    One more question, I see a lot people being told to post their addresses to get their money back, can I get my money back if I didn't pay anything?

    Thanks

  10. #10

    Default Re: Dependencies question

    The thing you have to understand about Linux is it relies almost entirely on dynamic, rather than static linking.

    So if I install a new system, and then add a new program, it might well pull in hundreds of megs of dependencies. But those hundreds of megs of dependencies will decrease the probability of future programs needing to pull in hundreds of megs.

    Eventually, you hit more or less equilibrium, where most things you install will only require the program itself.

    Unfortunately, the more libraries you have installed the more likely you are to get to 'rpm hell'.

    Apparently, that used to be an utter nightmare - and a regular one. It's never happened to me, and I haven't seen people complaining about it (in fact I believe zypper's solving algorithm is proven to be perfect, which makes a big difference).

    Moral of the story? Allocate 30 gig for root, and I will eat my duvet cover if you manage to fill it up through normal use. 20 gig is probably fine...

    [P.S. Welcome!]

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