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Thread: OpenSuse 11 & KDE4 - What were they thinking?

  1. #1

    Default OpenSuse 11 & KDE4 - What were they thinking?

    Using new (separate) partitions, I have installed 11.0_x86 with KDE4 and KDE3.5. Stock installs. As far as I can tell, the 11.0 part of the release embodies continual improvements from 10.3. KDE4, however, is an unmitigated disaster.

    1. Most importantly, font display in both KDE 4 and 3.5 are horrible ... fuzzy, reedy, worse than (say) Win98. Firefox3 is even worse, if that is possible. By comparison, my 10.3/3.5.9 production installation displays text on my Samsung 213T in Suse and Firefox2 as if it were printer on paper by a postscript lazer printer. Yes, I have done the freetype2 fixes that I did in 10.3, but these had little or no effect.

    2. While 11.0 boots a bit faster than 10.3 on my 3600x2, the overall desktop experience leads one to believe that 11.0 is a slug. Firefox3 is, of course, even worse and purely a slug on valium.

    3. The best (and perhaps only) benefit of 11.0 is package management. Having lived through 10.0 days up to 10.3, I have high regards for the openSuse developer efforts in this area.

    4. KDE4, however, earns only dismay and the phrase, "what were they thinking?". A desktop where one cannot adjust the font size of the clock? Icons (which at 1024x768) are best described as "Titanic" in size, and non-resizable; some may be temporarily, but all aren't? Useless sub-icons within the desktop icons that are a total waste of real estate, and whose functions and options in prior versions of KDE could be accomplished by a simple right-click?

    A completely different desktop metaphor full of glitz and bling, but impractical for everyday productive use? A "peanut" in the upper-right corner that occupies valuable real estate, gets in the way of virtually every mouse action, and which could have been implemented cleaner by a simple right-click on the desktop? Is the lemming instinct to emulate useless (but blingful) functionality like in Windows Vista so strong that there is a well-worn path to the cliff?

    A "new and improved" KDE control panel that is sure "new", but retrogressive in scope of functionality compared to 3.5x? A "new and improved file manager (Dolphin) that crashes or hangs repeatedly, while rendering the Konquerer file manager incapable of retaining settings (i.e., "save view profile" doesn't work)? Missing mouse clicks, particularly in an expanded (second layer) menu situation? No way to change the desktop resolution to (say) 1024x768 from the monitor's native 1600x1200, despite specifying the lower resolution at (non-automatic install) setting time? And the KDE Display applet with 1024x768 as a presented drop-down option, but "apply" is grayed out? Wonderful.

    A "KDEnetworkManager" that sits in the tray wasting space, and doesn't even show when traffic is occurring, unlike Knemo. And if Knemo is installed, it disappears into the voids of KDE4, so that I still don't have an icon in the tray to show network traffic.

    So much for KDE4 and its wonderful new desktop metaphor. I have no doubt that KDE developers and volunteers worked long and hard on it. But until removal of this blight upon usability becomes a (working) option, I'll leave KDE4 to to "widget kids" and other absorbers of the latest and greatest "bling factor". Usability remains a key objective in my value system, and KDE4 just doesn't cut it. Not even close. And as for reliability, this KDE 4.04/5 is alpha/beta quality at best. Stick with 3.5.9, folks, if you must upgrade to 11.0. As for me, I'm staying with 10.3 and 3.5.9 for (probably) a long time, because I don't want to ruin my eyes with 11.0's fonts and I expect it will take a long time, if ever, for KDE.org to come to its senses and provide a switch to turn off Plasma (or whatever this new and wonderful desktop metaphor is called).

    And before everyone thrashes me for not posting these KDE4 observations over at KDE.org, I'd just like you to go over to the forums there and see (1) how little posting there is over there, because, (2) no one from KDE seems to answer or participate there.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: OpenSuse 11 & KDE4 - What were they thinking?

    moved to soapbox, as it appears more of a rant than a request for help

    Andy
    To be is to do = Immanuel Kant
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    SuSE user since 7.0,Linux user since 1994

  3. #3
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    Default Re: OpenSuse 11 & KDE4 - What were they thinking?

    I think the OP does not realise that a. KDE4.x is a work in progress, b. highly experimental and c. bleeding edge.
    So don't complain, use KDE3.5 and pareticipate in making KDE4.x better !

    Also I notice that in this post a number of things are mentioned that all others in this forum seem to have 'solved'. Read !

    When I started playing around with 4.0 at the beginning of this year it was terrible
    Now it is almost finished, but takes some 'getting used to'.
    OpenSuSE Leap 42.3 / KDE 5.8 | Intel i7 3770 | 16GBRam | 120 + 80GB SSD's | Benq 27" | DVD | PhilipsToUcam 740 | HPpsc2355p | Logitech KB & mouse | 320 +160 + 80 + 80 GB USB HDD's | Fritz!Box Fon WLAN 7360 | (V)DSL 12 MB/s | SuSE since 2001

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    Default Re: OpenSuse 11 & KDE4 - What were they thinking?

    Well, maybe it's the user

    Just kidding.

    With the release of OS11 I decided to give KDE 4 a try. In all honesty, I did expect to do a fresh install within a day or two and keep using KDE 3.5. To my surprise, I'm still using KDE 4 and don't expect to look back. The only problem I had was that a right click on an icon launched the program. The day after I installed, a couple updates came through that fixed it and updated Firefox to 3.0.

    I'm good to go.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: OpenSuse 11 & KDE4 - What were they thinking?

    I don't really like the title of this thread. "What were they thinking?" They were trying to reach bleeding-edge users that want to try out an actually quite stable version of KDE4. I found it very usable indeed. I am quite glad they included 4 desktop managers. That is quite a lot of development! I really give them kudos for making KDE4 as stable as it is in OpenSUSE 11. I'm sure it was not an easy task.

    I honestly believe the KDE developers should have kept KDE4 out of the scene for a while longer so that people wouldn't become so anxious yet disappointed with the new release.

  6. #6

    Default Re: OpenSuse 11 & KDE4 - What were they thinking?

    Oh and do yourself a favor and enable the KDE 4.1 factory repo (sometimes its better to go even bloodier on the edge). It allows you to upgrade to 4.1 which in my opinion is a universe better than 4.0. The desktop icon foolishness has been somewhat resolved in 4.1. Instead of having useless widgets in place of each icon, you now have a Folder View widget that displays your desktop folder in your /home directory. Once you get used to the idea, its brilliant, as it allows you to have other folders on the desktop as well. For the other issues that you have posted, I have never run into those problems, so I am afraid I can not help you there.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: OpenSuse 11 & KDE4 - What were they thinking?

    I wonder what was said about KDE3 when it was new?
    Personally, after updating to 4.0.8 the only problems I have is that the screensaver freezes(not big),the mixer pops up on each startup or reboot(irritating but I can live with it) these'll get fixed. The only other problem is that I lost Geeko as the application launcher but that's another thread.
    I'm just a curious cat
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  8. #8

    Default Re: OpenSuse 11 & KDE4 - What were they thinking?

    Quote Originally Posted by eriksorenson View Post
    Using new (separate) partitions, I have installed 11.0_x86 with KDE4 and KDE3.5. Stock installs. As far as I can tell, the 11.0 part of the release embodies continual improvements from 10.3. KDE4, however, is an unmitigated disaster.
    I haven't tried KDE3 under OS11, yet only KDE4
    1. Most importantly, font display in both KDE 4 and 3.5 are horrible ... fuzzy, reedy, worse than (say) Win98. Firefox3 is even worse, if that is possible. By comparison, my 10.3/3.5.9 production installation displays text on my Samsung 213T in Suse and Firefox2 as if it were printer on paper by a postscript lazer printer. Yes, I have done the freetype2 fixes that I did in 10.3, but these had little or no effect.
    I don't find fonts to be a problem at all.
    2. While 11.0 boots a bit faster than 10.3 on my 3600x2, the overall desktop experience leads one to believe that 11.0 is a slug. Firefox3 is, of course, even worse and purely a slug on valium.
    My experience is that 11.0 is an order of magnitude faster than 10.3. I have both installed and go back and forth from time to time. Firefox3, I've found is likewise an incredible speed improvement, irregardless of os10.3, os11, or windows. I wonder if perhaps there's a problem with your swap partition on the 11.0 install?
    3. The best (and perhaps only) benefit of 11.0 is package management. Having lived through 10.0 days up to 10.3, I have high regards for the openSuse developer efforts in this area.
    Package management on OS11 is, so far, so much better than 10.3 that it's almost like they kept only the front-end and rewrote the back end from scratch.
    4. KDE4, however, earns only dismay and the phrase, "what were they thinking?". A desktop where one cannot adjust the font size of the clock? Icons (which at 1024x768) are best described as "Titanic" in size, and non-resizable; some may be temporarily, but all aren't? Useless sub-icons within the desktop icons that are a total waste of real estate, and whose functions and options in prior versions of KDE could be accomplished by a simple right-click?
    Not to mention that I get random KDE crashes when I go to add and then remove desktop widgets, and the occasional white screen of death with desktop effects enabled on my nvidia machine. It's pretty though.
    A completely different desktop metaphor full of glitz and bling, but impractical for everyday productive use? A "peanut" in the upper-right corner that occupies valuable real estate, gets in the way of virtually every mouse action, and which could have been implemented cleaner by a simple right-click on the desktop? Is the lemming instinct to emulate useless (but blingful) functionality like in Windows Vista so strong that there is a well-worn path to the cliff?
    ummm.... it's pretty, though.
    A "new and improved" KDE control panel that is sure "new", but retrogressive in scope of functionality compared to 3.5x? A "new and improved file manager (Dolphin) that crashes or hangs repeatedly, while rendering the Konquerer file manager incapable of retaining settings (i.e., "save view profile" doesn't work)? Missing mouse clicks, particularly in an expanded (second layer) menu situation? No way to change the desktop resolution to (say) 1024x768 from the monitor's native 1600x1200, despite specifying the lower resolution at (non-automatic install) setting time? And the KDE Display applet with 1024x768 as a presented drop-down option, but "apply" is grayed out? Wonderful.
    Much like Vista.... it's pretty, though. Maybe they were thinking... what the heck, it works for microsoft!


    On the other hand, we can hope that these kde4 bugs will get cleaned up relatively soon, and then we'll get the best of both worlds-- looks, and brains too!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: OpenSuse 11 & KDE4 - What were they thinking?

    Quote Originally Posted by eriksorenson View Post
    1. Most importantly, font display in both KDE 4 and 3.5 are horrible ... fuzzy, reedy, worse than (say) Win98. Firefox3 is even worse, if that is possible. By comparison, my 10.3/3.5.9 production installation displays text on my Samsung 213T in Suse and Firefox2 as if it were printer on paper by a postscript lazer printer. Yes, I have done the freetype2 fixes that I did in 10.3, but these had little or no effect.
    I've had some trouble with fuzzy fonts too, only in kde4 (even with kde3 apps launched from kde4). I found out that it was an antialiasing issue. After setting the hinting style to complete (or full) all is fine.

    For me kde4 is usable sometimes there are a few bugs but that is what I expected. I'm looking forward to 4.1 release which will be much more usable than 4.0 and with less bugs

    Firefox 3 runs as expected no problems so far. As already mentioned it is much faster than ff 2, so i like it

  10. #10
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    Default Re: OpenSuse 11 & KDE4 - What were they thinking?

    I think KDE4.0.4 in opensuse is the best you can get at the moment. KDE4.0 was never meant to be prime time and it shows. KDE4.0.82 in the buildservice is already MUCH better and more stable even if the officially call this a beta and 4.0.4 stable.

    I too had serious issues with KDE4.0 fonts. I read elsewhere that it is because antialiasing in KDE4.0 is disabled upstream. It might be my imagination but I do believe that in 4.0.82 fonts are also *much* improved.

    that said I run 4.0.82 and now that I am used to its potential I will not look back. maybe go back to XFCE but I am not sure yet. I do love dolphin so much and gwenview oh yeah Konsole is also fabulous i do not even use putty anymore

    I just really dislike plasma, the widgets, the cashew and the fact that I cannot move panel items around, I want to know myself where I put my stuff so come on and let me!

    stefan
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