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Thread: wireless problems

  1. #1
    bonefry NNTP User

    Default wireless problems

    Hi,

    I have a D-Link DWL-g122 rev.C ... which has an open-source driver. In Ubuntu it is installed by default but with OpenSuse 10.3 I had to manually install it. There was a rt73usb module already active but it didn't seem to work (I think it was missing firmware, but I'm not sure).

    Manually installing a driver is a pain, and besides that, I have to recompile it on every kernel update.

    Why isn't it in the OpenSuse? Because in Ubuntu it works out of the box. And what can be done about it, because I really don't feel like recompiling it on every update.

    Thanks,

  2. #2
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    Default Re: wireless problems

    Quote Originally Posted by bonefry View Post
    Why isn't it in the OpenSuse? Because in Ubuntu it works out of the box. And what can be done about it, because I really don't feel like recompiling it on every update.
    The reason is because since the transition from 10.0 to 10.1, SuSE changed from SuSE to openSUSE. This name change was meant to reflect a philosophical change in how the newer openSUSE Linux distribution was structured.

    Specifically, proprietary code in the most part is no longer included in openSUSE. Instead openSUSE endeavors to be a Linux distribution supporting the Free Software foundation definition of free.

    The drivers for the hardware you mention, while possibly open source, are NOT free per the Free Software Foundation definition of free. They are proprietary, and hence they are not included with openSUSE.

    Despite that, 3rd party sites are offering ways in which these 3rd party proprietary drivers can be used with openSUSE, and efforts are being made to make this more user friendly, ... BUT its very clear the proprietary aspects of these drivers means they are NOT to be included with the "boxed" openSUSE.

    While I suspect that won't make you happy, I hope the explanation does make sense.

    In case you are looking for further wireless guidance, please look at our two stickies:
    Welcome - openSUSE Forums
    Additional wireless bits - openSUSE Forums

    And thank you for participating in our forum.

  3. #3
    bonefry NNTP User

    Default Re: wireless problems

    Hey, thanks for the reply.

    Proprietary bits are included on the openSuse 10.3 DVD like Acrobat Reader and Flash and Sun's Java. And while I agree that open source and Free is better than proprietary, the most important thing of all is to "just work".

    I am a former Ubuntu user because I am sick and tired of working around bugs every 6 months. And whenever there's a new Ubuntu release you have to upgrade because otherwise you won't get newer versions of important applications like Firefox 3 (I'm happy to report that Firefox 3.0 is in the OpenSuse 10.3 repositories and it works fine). Not to mention that some bugs are recurring every release.

    At some point I was pissed enough to consider switching to Windows, but since I am a software engineer that's addicted to the GNU userland, that would've been even more painful. The bottom line however is that I need to "get work done", and I need a reliable operating system that works and doesn't break on every update.

    I worked with OpenSuse 10.3 for a full month, and it is pragmatic and stable and I like it, except for this little annoyance.

    I will look into it, maybe I can get the driver that's already included (rt73usb) to work, or maybe I could create a package in the Novell build system (although I'm not sure how that would work).

    Thanks,

  4. #4
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    Default Re: wireless problems

    Bonefry -

    Well said...I understand your frustration.

    [The distro that best understands your issue and (tries to)
    deal with it is Mepis, which abandoned the Ubuntu repositories
    for EXACTLY the reason you stated. And, they have best
    out-of-the-box hardware-detection/support of ANY Linux distro.]

    My suggestion for you (here on openSUSE) is to learn to use 'ndiswrapper',
    which I've found over the years is the best bet for
    wireless support, if/when the native drivers present
    don't work. [There's a little bit of a learning curve...
    blacklist, etc, but you can handle that.]

    Details (for openSUSE) are at:
    Ndiswrapper - openSUSE

    Cheers...
    Dave

  5. #5
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    Default Re: wireless problems

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcpu View Post
    Specifically, proprietary code in the most part is no longer included in openSUSE. Instead openSUSE endeavors to be a Linux distribution supporting the Free Software foundation definition of free.
    'proprietary code in MOST part' sounds alot like saying
    'that all men are created MOSTLY equal'. Seems to me that
    Novell's recent pact with MS$ 'taints the kernel' every bit
    as much as loading binary software, making
    statements like '...endeavors to be a Linux distribution
    supporting the Free Software foundation definition of free'
    a moot point.

    <Rant off>

    [Sorry...couldn't resist that opening.]

    Dave

  6. #6
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    Default Re: wireless problems

    Quote Originally Posted by bonefry View Post
    Proprietary bits are included on the openSuse 10.3 DVD like Acrobat Reader and Flash and Sun's Java.
    I think you have a point !

    But with my having typed that, given that we are dealing with proprietary applications, it is possible the legal framework of each individual proprietary application is different. Hence its possible Acrobat Reader and Flash and Sun's Java have a legal frame work that makes it easier to include them on a DVD, than it does the wireless proprietary drivers. I don't know that to be the case, ... I'm just speculating.

    Quote Originally Posted by bonefry View Post
    And while I agree that open source and Free is better than proprietary, the most important thing of all is to "just work".
    That was one of the major comments/complaints when 10.1 came out. But those complaints were lost and drowned in the wash of the "flac" over 10.1's software management fiasco.

    I think Cookdav has a valid suggestion. Learn the ins and outs of ndiswrapper. ... Alternatively, do what I do, which is to refuse outright to purchase any wireless device that does not have easily configurable wireless for Linux.

    Thats what Mac users do. Have you ever seen a Mac user purchase hardware without first checking to see if it is Mac compatible?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: wireless problems

    Quote Originally Posted by cookdav View Post
    'proprietary code in MOST part' sounds alot like saying
    'that all men are created MOSTLY equal'. Seems to me that
    Novell's recent pact with MS$ 'taints the kernel' every bit
    as much as loading binary software, making
    statements like '...endeavors to be a Linux distribution
    supporting the Free Software foundation definition of free'
    a moot point.

    <Rant off>

    [Sorry...couldn't resist that opening.]

    Dave
    And thankfully those that believe the "pact is teh evil" and are against it can choose many of the other distros out now. As we have not seen anything since the pact that can be considered detrimental to the OSS, it looks like these Novell/MS deal opinions are just founded in FUD.

  8. #8
    bonefry NNTP User

    Default Re: wireless problems

    Well, my thread now has moved to a category where I'll definitely won't get answers to my original question

    I think that radical ideas are dangerous because they attract the wrong kind of people and when that happens there's no place for objective counter-arguments anymore.
    I wish Linux communities would welcome both pragmatics and idealists, but the air sticks lately ... Soapbox indeed.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: wireless problems

    bonefry wrote:
    > Well, my thread now has moved to a category where I'll definitely won't
    > get answers to my original question
    >
    > I think that radical ideas are dangerous because they attract the wrong
    > kind of people and when that happens there's no place for objective
    > counter-arguments anymore.
    > I wish Linux communities would welcome both pragmatics and idealists,
    > but the air sticks lately ... Soapbox indeed.
    >
    >

    Well, your thread was not asking how to get the wireless card working so
    it did not belong in the wireless forum. The thread was asking why
    openSUSE did not include the drivers in the distro followed up by an
    most comparison to the way Ubuntu does things. This can be considered as
    opinion and was moved by a mod because of that and the posts that followed.

    As for your last paragraph, would you care to explain what you mean
    there? No one is telling you that you can't speak your thoughts on this
    subject, just that topics need to be in the correct spot. You were not
    asking for help so it needed to be moved.

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