PDA

View Full Version : openSUSE - The Way Forward



alanbortu
21-Jun-2014, 17:35
Is there a design site for all the stuff mentioned in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-r_ML-MnMo ? (If you have not watched it check it out, its interesting stuff).

In particular the artwork, design suggestions, etc. They also mention a website but the url is not provided in the description and in the presentation it is run on the local machine. And they also hinted at setting up an email to contact them but again nothing in the description.

I am a bit interested in the topic so any hints on where to look would be appreciated.

malcolmlewis
21-Jun-2014, 18:43
Hi
Here you go: Portal:Artwork (http://en.opensuse.org/Artwork)

Enjoy :)

alanbortu
21-Jun-2014, 18:59
Hi
Here you go: Portal:Artwork (http://en.opensuse.org/Artwork)

Enjoy :)


Thanks I noticed that wiki page but in the presentation they mention a website that would describe all the details about the suggested changes (~21:20). Any idea where I can find that?

malcolmlewis
21-Jun-2014, 20:28
On Sun 22 Jun 2014 02:06:01 AM CDT, alanbortu wrote:


malcolmlewis;2650111 Wrote:
> Hi
> Here you go: 'Portal:Artwork' (http://en.opensuse.org/Artwork)
>
> Enjoy :)


Thanks I noticed that wiki page but in the presentation they mention a
website that would describe all the details about the suggested changes
(~21:20). Any idea where I can find that?




Hi
Well all the artwork, posters etc is on github?
https://github.com/openSUSE/artwork/ and
http://geeko.ioda.net/git/artwork/

--
Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64) GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.11.10-11-desktop
If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
please show your appreciation and click on the star below... Thanks!

alanbortu
21-Jun-2014, 20:44
Hi
Well all the artwork, posters etc is on github?
https://github.com/openSUSE/artwork/ and
http://geeko.ioda.net/git/artwork/

--
Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64) GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.11.10-11-desktop
If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
please show your appreciation and click on the star below... Thanks!

I've been looking through that for a while now and cant really seem to find any of the stuff from the presentation. Most of the stuff seems to be the 13.1 or older stuff, I will keep looking but the stuff I was interested in was this proposed "rebranding" or "refreshing the branding".

Oh and thank you for the help :):)

holden87
22-Jun-2014, 08:00
The whole video is not encouraging, to say the least...

alanbortu
22-Jun-2014, 08:41
The whole video is not encouraging, to say the least...

What makes you say that? As they said, its not the definite new brand for openSUSE but just some suggested guidelines that are in a very early stage. Personally I am not a fan of the Geeko they had (the mouth just looks strange).

holden87
22-Jun-2014, 10:56
Not speaking from the designer's point of view, as i am not one. But from what i see, and i hope i'm wrong, as i don't want to spread fud. But suggesting the guidelines is one thing (i was pretty excited there as i'm looking for opensuse to have a more uniformed look and feel) and the other when he was talking about rebranding and brand diluting (or however it's spelled). What I see there is a SUSE employee (and a former Canonical employee) talking about how the similar brands aren't a good thing, and he mentions it would be better even if opensuse was called geeko linux, f.ex. I don't know if anyone from suse is with us here on the boards, but i felt some sort of a negative attitude towards the brand similarities. To cut things short, I got the feeling (which may be incorrect) that suse is feeling that opensuse with it's brand is having a negative impact on suse's corporate brand, and it would like it changed, but that they're taking a really small step by step to ensure they don't **** off the community, like Canonical does all the time, because they don't soften it up first. Now he says something, beating around the bush, that he would like to rebrand the whole community project, but he never specifically states why (only the diluting aspect, which i don't know what it is and why it damages any of the projects).
Now, it all sounds to me like he thinks it should be done the way RH did it - Red Hat vs Fedora. Distinctly different branding. But then the problem occurs because that should have been done way back on day one.
Now to make my personal point. I'm not stating anything, just expressing my interpretation and concern.
1) I wouldn't like opensuse to be rebranded because i'm emotionally attached to the brand and the geeko, so instead of the whole project rebranding, i'd like some kickass graphics in the guidelines provided. But that's just me.
2) If i'm correct about my intuition, I'd like someone from suse to step out, and say exactly why should the brand be changed. I think that if the reasons are valid, the community wouldn't object much, and it couldn't be perceived as suse meddling with the community. It's in all of our best interest to suse to expand and be successful.

If it's just my imagination working here, then I'd be more than happy for someone to say it's a non issue, because the thing i fear the most is the slow manipulation of the community. If the terms are clear, there can't be objections, but slowly trying to steer the vessel somewhere you wan't it by slow manipulation is really not good nor clever, and we'll have a Canonical/Ubuntu scenario in our camp.

Anyway, not trying to spread fud or ignite a flamewar, so if it's a non issue, feel free to ignore it.

I'll be posting this to the mailing list also, as i'm interested in a response from someone.

Regards.

RBrownCCB
22-Jun-2014, 12:49
Okay, so this is a fun thread for me to reply to.. I guess I'm coming here with all 3 of my hats on


In chronological order, for those who don't already know me, my various 'hats' I wear that are relevant to this discussion:


Hat one - I've been a community user and contributor to openSUSE since it's inception in 2005. I am currently part of the teams that currently maintain both GNOME and the 'branding' packages in openSUSE
Hat two - I'm a member of the openSUSE Board for the last 2 years
Hat three - I'm an employee of SUSE for the last 8 months


So, I think I can speak authoritatively from a historical perspective, and accurately about the current status quo


What you see in the video, is Kenneth and Zvezdana sharing the work they've done, predominantly in the 'print design' space, making lots of nice new materials which form the goodies we now have in booth boxes for distribution at events around the world. As part of that work, they've put together a bunch of Guidelines which I know they hope to have online soon which explain and help people use those materials properly, and to alter/generate their own in a way that's 'compatible' from a professional design perspective.


At around about the 18:30 mark, Kenneth makes it very clear this isn't an enforced change. "The first step in the direction that we maybe want to go". SUSE don't work as part of openSUSE by forcing changes on the community. SUSE isn't a Canonical or even RH-like company that has tight controls over their community distributions. SUSE very much believes that the best way for open source communities to work is by being part of that community and influencing it as peers, not as controllers/managers. When Kenneth says "that we maybe want to go", that's an open invitation for us (the rest of the community, ie. everyone who isn't Kenneth) to share our opinions on where we think it ought to go. From there, I'd expect some discussion and debate would then result in a satisfactory way forward for everyone.


So, with that in mind, the specific topic of 'the openSUSE brand' and how it relates to the 'SUSE' brand, Kenneth makes it quite clear he's not a/the person at SUSE who would make any decision about changing the brand.
In fact, as the current openSUSE logo/trademark is jointly administered between SUSE and the openSUSE Board, I would expect that any such changes wouldn't be decided by SUSE alone, but in conjunction/agreement with the openSUSE Board (who do their best job to represent the interests of all of us that contribute to openSUSE)


The opinion Kenneth then shares about what "he" would do, is just that, his opinion. You may think it's a valid one, you may not, but he's entitled to his opinion as a member of this community just as any of us are.
I do not think your worry is justified just because he's a SUSE employee, we're all humans too ;-)


My personal opinion (and as we've established, I'm also SUSE employee) is that I disagree with the idea that openSUSE should be totally rebranded (ie. Changing the name of the project, the logo, etc)


I can't help but feel that openSUSE 'deserves' the use of the Geeko as much as SUSE does. It's a big part of the openSUSE projects identity, and we'd be risking a lot if we abandoned it. But if we both want to use it (and I think it's obvious that we do) it's probably best to ensure we're both using it in a way that keeps both brands looking happy & strong, for the benefit of both SUSE and openSUSE


So, in part, I do agree with Kenneth's opinion that the current situation (the openSUSE logo using the old 'Fifthleg' typeface and SUSE using it's new logo) is not ideal - from a design and marketing perspective, it is 'weird' to have these 2 very similar 'brands' (SUSE and openSUSE), who are clearly related (their names after all are SUSE and openSUSE) having a logo which is so similar, yet different.
I do agree with the argument that the 'old' style of the current openSUSE logo detracts from the 'new hotness' SUSE are trying to convey with their new logo, and I do think it's an excuse for openSUSE to refresh it's logo and image a little bit.


*Personally* (asteriks for emphasis), I'd like to remove the text from the openSUSE logo and just stick to using the geeko (maybe the new SUSE style with flat feet, maybe not). I have come to hate the old openSUSE fithleg font with a passion, and would be quite happy to throw it in the dustbin, which makes it easier to use fonts like those recommended by Kenneth and Zvezdana in conjunction with a text-free logo. I don't think we need to have text in our logo.


Or, alternatively, I also quite like the idea of refreshing the openSUSE test to look more similar/compatible with the current SUSE logo, which I also think might be a solution to the concerns Kenneth raises


But like I said, these are my personal opinions, there's no overarching 'SUSE policy' on this matter, Kenneth wasn't trying to convey one, I'm not trying to convey one, we're all just fellow community members sharing our opinions on how to move things forward in the best way


Hope this helps


- Richard

holden87
22-Jun-2014, 22:52
It helps a great deal richard. You have cleared it out perfectly and accept my apologies here also. I did not want to stir trouble, for sure.

For the rest - the whole discussion can be viewed here:
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-artwork/2014-06/msg00029.html

consused
23-Jun-2014, 03:42
My personal opinion (and as we've established, I'm also SUSE employee) is that I disagree with the idea that openSUSE should be totally rebranded (ie. Changing the name of the project, the logo, etc)
Without any major change to the openSUSE project or its products, re-branding would run the high risk of alienating current consumers and contributors. I can think of at least two classic examples in commercial marketplaces, one positive outcome and a negative one: In the UK, British Telecom successfully re-branded following industry de-regulation and privatization, whereas British Airways for no obvious reason famously failed to refresh its branding on aeroplanes and no-one understood the new international pictures painted on the plane's tail fin, resulting in a costly reversal.

dimesio
23-Jun-2014, 14:38
Without any major change to the openSUSE project or its products, re-branding would run the high risk of alienating current consumers and contributors.
I've been a loyal openSUSE user for the past 6 years, and while the color palette and fonts look fine to me, I would not be at all happy with that cousin-to-Homer-Simpson lizard or renaming the distro "Geeko." To me both suggest a distro aimed at the dumbest people on the planet.

alanbortu
23-Jun-2014, 15:17
I've been a loyal openSUSE user for the past 6 years, and while the color palette and fonts look fine to me, I would not be at all happy with that cousin-to-Homer-Simpson lizard or renaming the distro "Geeko." To me both suggest a distro aimed at the dumbest people on the planet.

Not sure if you have but check out the ML archive related to the material from this thread. For those of you just entering the thread please read it before posting, I think it clears up some questions you may have (and hopefully gives you more questions to ask).

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-artwork/2014-06/msg00054.html


This is correct. This chameleon was never meant to be a logo. There were questions during the conference in Dubrovnik to create logo from it, which we refused from the very start.
This chameleon is one out of four posters we created and it is the only one that has that "funny" side. That chameleon is just a fragment of the whole concept that we made.


http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-artwork/2014-06/msg00052.html
(http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-artwork/2014-06/msg00052.html)

I'd like to take a minute to explain what I did and didn't say in our presentation. I think that Nenad asks a few questions that are at the backs of peoples minds so it is good to clear this up here.

I work for SUSE. As a design team within SUSE there are often ways to help out with openSUSE. Like the wallpapers that Zvedana posted - we made them and then submitted them to the list like any other contributor. The only time we have not worked as any other community member was when there was time-pressure and it dealt with a lot of money, logistics and dealing with printing companies, comparing prices, etc. ad nauseum. It is natural in such a situation that SUSE and the board agree to allow the team (they pay to do exactly this for SUSE) to step up and help openSUSE.

What I mentioned about branding and such can be boiled down to this:

In my opinion the brand is currently weak and something needs to be done.
Note the "In my opinion"...it is just my opinion and I am in no way paid to deal with any of this :-) I am just reflecting upon the process we encountered trying to get marketing materials printed. The weak brand really made it hard for us to do our job :-(

Whether at some time in the future openSUSE decides to rebrand itself is a question that I cannot answer. I can give you my opinion that the brand needs to be strengthened and I can give you my opinion on how that should happen but in the end it is only my opinion.

I think it says a lot that this topic is so interesting to everyone. Maybe it would be time to actually discuss the matter in an orderly way, starting at the big question: does it even need to be done. Again, this is just my opinion :-)

consused
23-Jun-2014, 15:42
I've been a loyal openSUSE user for the past 6 years, and while the color palette and fonts look fine to me, I would not be at all happy with that cousin-to-Homer-Simpson lizard or renaming the distro "Geeko." To me both suggest a distro aimed at the dumbest people on the planet.
Exactly my first reaction, but the lizard was there just as a talking point (hopefully). :) The eyes and the teeth are memorable but for the wrong reasons, and little else was, after seeing those. In any case, I think Geeko does need a more serious look in the sense of "it means business".

alanbortu
23-Jun-2014, 15:55
The eyes and the teeth are memorable but for the wrong reasons, and little else was, after seeing those

Heh agreed very much. Somewhat related, KDE has really changed the way it looks and it seems the mascot did too. I have to be honest I actually really like these guys, they look fun especially when compared to the old mascot (found it on the internet, not sure how official it is http://krita.org/item/133-krita-konqi-contest-the-winner-is-found).

http://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/39092530


http://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/21903671

holden87
23-Jun-2014, 22:57
The thing is, everything went a little off course.

I never meant anything to be about specifically proposed marketing material in the lecture. It was only about those statements from Kenneth, which have been cleared out by Kenneth himself, Zvezdana and Richard. (Thanks again for your response).

I'm just adding a disclaimer because i don't want to come out as a troll or flamer if this thread gets derailed.


P.S.: Maybe mods could rename it 'Artwork Guidelines Suggestions' maybe?


Regards.

alanbortu
23-Jun-2014, 23:03
The thing is, everything went a little off course.

I never meant anything to be about specifically proposed marketing material in the lecture. It was only about those statements from Kenneth, which have been cleared out by Kenneth himself, Zvezdana and Richard. (Thanks again for your response).

I'm just adding a disclaimer because i don't want to come out as a troll or flamer if this thread gets derailed.


P.S.: Maybe mods could rename it 'Artwork Guidelines Suggestions' maybe?


Regards.

Well I named the thread after the presentation that they gave but I had no intention of turning it into a discussion about what the future of the brand should be (although I think it is good that there was some discussion and questions about it). And I don't think anyone thought you were trolling/flaming, your concerns were very legitimate and because you asked Ken, Zvezdana and Richard were able to clear it up for us. :)

jonte1
25-Jun-2014, 10:22
Not to try to add on or prolong any flame (witch I think it haven't been in this post). I tested today to install a factory snapshot (openSUSE-Factory-DVD-x86_64-Snapshot20140620-Media.iso).

With the risk to have people yelling at me as usual I found the color scheme during setup looked fresh (everything new does). But why not? When change let it look nice as well. Important in the long run to attract new users.

Yes I know it was a factory snapshot. We will see in the released 13.2 what it will be.

I also posted the screen-shot with a different text in Pre-Release/Beta forum. If this is against the rules please delete this post.

Regards

http://www.jodo.nu/pic/pic/snapshot.jpeg

alanbortu
25-Jun-2014, 13:44
Not to try to add on or prolong any flame (witch I think it haven't been in this post). I tested today to install a factory snapshot (openSUSE-Factory-DVD-x86_64-Snapshot20140620-Media.iso).

With the risk to have people yelling at me as usual I found the color scheme during setup looked fresh (everything new does). But why not? When change let it look nice as well. Important in the long run to attract new users.

Yes I know it was a factory snapshot. We will see in the released 13.2 what it will be.

I also posted the screen-shot with a different text in Pre-Release/Beta forum. If this is against the rules please delete this post.

Regards



I dont use Factory but is that the default theme? If so is the new default theme going to be dark? I know there was discussion on the mailing list about possibly making a new theme (see http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-artwork/2014-06/msg00062.html and http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-artwork/2014-06/msg00050.html)

PS. Does fresh = good?


Thanks

holden87
25-Jun-2014, 23:48
I have to agree with jonte1. I'm liking the new color scheme. It's been also shown on the mailing list, if i'm not mistaking?

RBrownSUSE
26-Jun-2014, 01:30
I have to agree with jonte1. I'm liking the new color scheme. It's been also shown on the mailing list, if i'm not mistaking?

The theme you currently see in factory was originally written for SUSE Linux Enterprise - I/we/people involved accepted it into Factory at the moment primarily for 2 (interrelated) reasons

1. it made openQA's life a lot easier testing both Factory (for openSUSE) and SLE (for SUSE) - openSUSE's openQA could benefit to the improvements made to YaST testing that were being added because of SLE

2. YaST's installer has received a huge amount of changes (No more second stage, totally different workflow, etc), and adopting the SLE-style theme (for now) worked better than trying to crowbar the openSUSE 13.1 style onto the new style YaST

For openSUSE 13.2, I and others intend to retheme the YaST installer to give openSUSE a unique (from SLE) but still fresh look and feel. Whether or not this will be 'inspired' by SLE's dark theme is undecided - I personally suspect it will be more 'inspired by' the Design guidelines presented by Kenneth and Zvesdana, which I think is a nice direction for openSUSE to go in.

Whether or not this is part of a unified effort to also retheme our various desktops KDE, GNOME, Enlightenment, etc is a more open question. Guidelines like the ones that triggered this discussion are probably a good place to start - all of our various desktops have different technical requirements, so getting them all to look 'alike' is probably a bad idea and impossible..but 'feeling' related is a nice goal to have which I think we can achieve.

jonte1
26-Jun-2014, 02:45
The theme you currently see in factory was originally written for SUSE Linux Enterprise - I/we/people involved accepted it into Factory at the moment primarily for 2 (interrelated) reasons
- - - - - - - -

...For openSUSE 13.2, I and others intend to retheme the YaST installer to give openSUSE a unique (from SLE) but still fresh look and feel. Whether or not this will be 'inspired' by SLE's dark theme is undecided - I personally suspect it will be more 'inspired by' the Design guidelines presented by Kenneth and Zvesdana, which I think is a nice direction for openSUSE to go in.


I knew there have to be a reason for that YaST installer theme in Factory. Thanks for the answer.

I'm not sure about the talk of re-brand openSUSE from SUSE. Make it "unique" from SLE. Isen't it a better idea to make the two brands to help etch other forward?

To make them to different will remove that bond.
But what do i know, -I'm just a little ant in the big forest ;).

Ps. I like dark themes, Good that it is easy to change theme in KDE De. Ds.

Regards

holden87
26-Jun-2014, 03:03
For openSUSE 13.2, I and others intend to retheme the YaST installer to give openSUSE a unique (from SLE) but still fresh look and feel. Whether or not this will be 'inspired' by SLE's dark theme is undecided - I personally suspect it will be more 'inspired by' the Design guidelines presented by Kenneth and Zvesdana, which I think is a nice direction for openSUSE to go in.

Whether or not this is part of a unified effort to also retheme our various desktops KDE, GNOME, Enlightenment, etc is a more open question. Guidelines like the ones that triggered this discussion are probably a good place to start - all of our various desktops have different technical requirements, so getting them all to look 'alike' is probably a bad idea and impossible..but 'feeling' related is a nice goal to have which I think we can achieve.

Great. I don't know why, but aside all the goodness openSUSE has to offer, I think that a more unified artwork (as you say: similar, not same) and look that's not schizophrenic and is visually polished is the last and final addition openSUSE could offer. And considering all proposals here and on the mailing list, I think openSUSE could be going big with the next release(s). Myself, I can't wait for november, tbh :)

alanbortu
26-Jun-2014, 08:10
And considering all proposals here and on the mailing list, I think openSUSE could be going big with the next release(s). Myself, I can't wait for november, tbh :)

Agreed, openSUSE seems to be heading in a good direction and I have really been trying to get some of my friends who are curious about Linux/other distros to use it. A new theme (which looks really nice) will be a great way to make a good first impression.

I have been using the color scheme I posted earlier in the thread with KDE 4 and it looks great, but hopefully by the time KDE5 is a DE option for openSUSE downloads it will look even better, partly due to the fact that KDE5 just looks better in general. I have really been impressed with some of the things I have seen and I am going to try to get involved in whatever way I can (no real art talent in me so probably just voice opinions/vote here and there).

And speaking of KDE5 I dont think it is any secret that when people think of KDE distros openSUSE is one of the top 3 in their list which means that when KDE5 comes out it might be a good opportunity to get people into openSUSE even if all they want to do is try out KDE5.

alanbortu
27-Jun-2014, 18:07
Just a little update on some of the materials from the presentation that I saw posted on the mailing list.
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-artwork/2014-06/msg00074.html



Hi all,

We've started to translate the CMYK colours from the print stuff we did
into RGB. Please note that this is a work in progress so any suggestions
or examples of problems in usage are more than welcome.

The file can be found here...it is an SVG file with four sets of boxes.
The outer left and right boxes are the original CMYK colours (note that
they look a bit dirty). The inner colours are our first attempts at
translating the CMYK into RGB.

http://paste.opensuse.org/42467162

If there are any questions or suggestions for improvement please share
them with the list. Again, I'd like to mention that these colours are
not in any way official, they are just the colours from the last set of
printed marketing materials.

--
Kenneth Wimer

SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

alanbortu
30-Jun-2014, 12:29
And in great news, Richard has posted the marketing materials that I was looking for at the start of the thread, yay! :)

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-artwork/2014-06/msg00097.html


...
As you saw at oSC14 on the Videos and such Zvezdana and Kenneth put
together new Marketing Materials which we're using in the booth boxes
we're sending around the world

I've uploaded the PDF's and SVG Sources for those materials temporarily to here:
https://github.com/sysrich/opensuse-newbrandguidelines

Please read the README.md which explains what is in each folder :)

They actually gave me these a few weeks ago, but I wanted to upload
them elsewhere, like I said above, this is a 'temporary' home for
these while we come up with a more sensible permanent solution
...

boblmartens
30-Jun-2014, 13:16
Thanks for posting those and getting them on GitHub.

I'll comment just because I can, not because my opinion is valid whatsoever.

I'd love to see openSUSE and SUSE become closer in some ways (as far as branding goes) so that both can be strengthened mutually. A big thing would be moving to a single mark so as to not be confused between openSUSE and SUSE. They are obviously linked, so I think you either get closer together as far as marks and marketing or get farther apart much like the Red Hat/Fedora division.

Eh, take it or leave it.

alanbortu
21-Jul-2014, 21:13
Sorry for necroing this thread but there were some new updates to the yast installer on the mailing list!

See: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-artwork/2014-07/msg00052.html



Hi all,

I have begun work on a new installer theme. It is based on the code we are using in SLES 12.

I tried to make a light coloured theme which fits well with some of the new colours. I've attached a screenshot for those who don't know how to test it.

https://github.com/kwwii/branding/tree/13.2/yast/

Note that this is a work in progress - that means it is not done yet :-)




Hi all,

If anyone is interested I have posted some newer screenshots of the
installer work I started.

http://paste.opensuse.org/79645134
http://paste.opensuse.org/92039260
http://paste.opensuse.org/7360308
http://paste.opensuse.org/16332554

This time I used an openSUSE snapshot :-)

boblmartens
22-Jul-2014, 05:25
It is looking good. I'm coming around to the new colors the more I see them in action.

jonte1
23-Jul-2014, 03:29
In my eyes a nice tread. At least for everybody that are interested in the future of how openSUSE looks.

Tested factory snapshot 20140721 today and as a comparison of above with some experimenting of the new colors and new installer I post a similar screen shot. I still go for the dark way of theme:P. But what do I know.. Joking, the more trying, suggestions and comments the final product will be a success.

http://www.jodo.nu/pic/pic/snapshot38.jpeg

Regards

dragonbite
23-Jul-2014, 05:12
I've actually been a fan of the green/white or green/lt. grey. They seem clean and professional but then again, maybe SUSE should use the light version while openSUSE uses the dark version?

(Then again, I am also a fan of Ubuntu's old multi-color logo (not so much the 2-tone "professional" one they use now) and their brown/orange colors were not too bad and I think made them stand out. The purple does too, but not as much "fun".)

jonte1
25-Jul-2014, 02:01
Interesting 1:

Tested KDE 5 on a WM, and they seems to have revert to the old "logo" compared with what alanbortu published here before.

http://www.jodo.nu/pic/pic/snapshot39.jpeg

Interesting 2.
It took about 1/2 minute before I realize that the page on plasma 5 in my browser was written in Swedish. No auto translated. Make my day:).

http://www.jodo.nu/pic/pic/snapshot40.jpeg




Regards

alanbortu
04-Aug-2014, 09:30
Interesting 1:

Tested KDE 5 on a WM, and they seems to have revert to the old "logo" compared with what alanbortu published here before.

http://www.jodo.nu/pic/pic/snapshot39.jpeg



Shame, I thought the "new" ones looked better. :(

Miuku
04-Aug-2014, 09:59
In my eyes a nice tread. At least for everybody that are interested in the future of how openSUSE looks.
The installer still asks too many **** questions.

For it to be "straightforward" enough for people, it needs to be more like the Ubuntu installer - it needs a Beginner button "Hi, wanna install? Yeah! LET'S DO IT" and then an advanced button that actually allows you to tweak things.

jonte1
04-Aug-2014, 11:06
Shame, I thought the "new" ones looked better. :(

Here it is time for.. I put my foot in my mouth. I totally agree upon that the "new" looks better. I hope that the openSUSE 13.2 are brave enough to take the step. Mea Culpa.

Regards

jonte1
04-Aug-2014, 11:14
The installer still asks too many **** questions.

For it to be "straightforward" enough for people, it needs to be more like the Ubuntu installer - it needs a Beginner button "Hi, wanna install? Yeah! LET'S DO IT" and then an advanced button that actually allows you to tweak things.

So, -what will the "technical gurus" in the forum to receive upon less info than today think?

Devils advocate >:).

Regards

robin_listas
04-Aug-2014, 11:24
On 2014-08-04 20:16, jonte1 wrote:
>
> Miuku;2657513 Wrote:
>> The installer still asks too many **** questions.
>>
>> For it to be "straightforward" enough for people, it needs to be more
>> like the Ubuntu installer - it needs a Beginner button "Hi, wanna
>> install? Yeah! LET'S DO IT" and then an advanced button that actually
>> allows you to tweak things.
>
> So, -what will the "technical gurus" in the forum to receive upon less
> info than today think?
>
> Devils advocate >:).

I hate software taking decisions for me. I want MORE questions.

For instance:

Is this a laptop or a desktop or a virtual machine? (it often guesses wrong)

Is it intended for home or office?

Server usage?

--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))

Miuku
04-Aug-2014, 11:34
I see your point Robin and that's why I suggested that it should have an Advanced button that gives you the chance to modify ALL THE THINGS! \o/

But it should also have a complete dummy mode that doesn't ask you more than the very basics like Region, Keyboard layout and that's about it - maybe present with a few partitioning choices. Other than that it should just "Do it" - take Win8 installer as a great example, it's "Hi, where are you from?" and that's about it.

jonte1
04-Aug-2014, 12:07
I see your point Robin and that's why I suggested that it should have an Advanced button that gives you the chance to modify ALL THE THINGS! \o/

But it should also have a complete dummy mode that doesn't ask you more than the very basics like Region, Keyboard layout and that's about it - maybe present with a few partitioning choices. Other than that it should just "Do it" - take Win8 installer as a great example, it's "Hi, where are you from?" and that's about it.

Interesting. I have for many years peddle between orders, developers and users. I don't have a clear answer yet but a path forward.

regards

nrickert
04-Aug-2014, 12:14
For it to be "straightforward" enough for people, it needs to be more like the Ubuntu installer - it needs a Beginner button "Hi, wanna install? Yeah! LET'S DO IT"

That's what I don't like about ubuntu.

cra1g321
04-Aug-2014, 13:43
i say HELL NO to dumming down the installer.

openSUSE's installer is the best installer out of all the distro's IMO.

So many choices and far easier to set up more complicated partition setups than just your typical (swap, / , /home ) setup.

With region and keyboard layout, it automatically finds this information if you're connected to the internet during the install.
So most of the time you just have to click next and that's it.

Miuku
04-Aug-2014, 14:00
i say HELL NO to dumming down the installer.
It's not dumbing down, it's giving people with less technical knowledge an easier way to install the operating system without confusing them with "BTFRS FW LVM OMFG BBQ" and just using "These are sensible defaults" and letting people with more knowledge customize the install to their liking.

hendersj
04-Aug-2014, 15:05
On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 21:06:01 +0000, Miuku wrote:

> cra1g321;2657558 Wrote:
>> i say HELL NO to dumming down the installer.
> It's not dumbing down, it's giving people with less technical knowledge
> an easier way to install the operating system without confusing them
> with "BTFRS FW LVM OMFG BBQ" and just using "These are sensible
> defaults" and letting people with more knowledge customize the install
> to their liking.

The installer does that pretty much now.

For those who want more control, you can tweak things at the end of the
selections right before the installation starts.

Sure, you get prompted for which filesystem you want - but the default
selection is the sensible selection, so those who don't know what to do
should just go with the defaults - or come here and ask questions.

Jim
--
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

cra1g321
04-Aug-2014, 16:16
The installer isn't exactly difficult to use, and as hendersj said it often picks a decent defaults.

I think if someone struggles with the installer, then they are installing something that they first should of gained some basic understanding of.

I don't think the installer is over-complicated compared to other installers,

i think it does a excellent job of keeping things simple (automatically choosing correct settings and providing a good partition scheme) while also giving options for power-user's to do more tweaking to the installation.

For example on the partition part of the installer, it automatically picks a good partition scheme, a typical user can just check this then hit Next,
while a power-user can just go to "edit partition setup" or "create partition setup" and do everything manually or tweak the partition scheme.

robin_listas
04-Aug-2014, 16:48
On 2014-08-05 00:05, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 21:06:01 +0000, Miuku wrote:
>
>> cra1g321;2657558 Wrote:
>>> i say HELL NO to dumming down the installer.
>> It's not dumbing down, it's giving people with less technical knowledge
>> an easier way to install the operating system without confusing them
>> with "BTFRS FW LVM OMFG BBQ" and just using "These are sensible
>> defaults" and letting people with more knowledge customize the install
>> to their liking.
>
> The installer does that pretty much now.
>
> For those who want more control, you can tweak things at the end of the
> selections right before the installation starts.


But there are choices that should be done right at the start, before the
automatics decide what packages to install, or what partitions to
create. Like installing for a laptop or a desktop.

Doing that type of customization is complex.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))

hendersj
04-Aug-2014, 18:11
On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 23:48:10 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2014-08-05 00:05, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 21:06:01 +0000, Miuku wrote:
>>
>>> cra1g321;2657558 Wrote:
>>>> i say HELL NO to dumming down the installer.
>>> It's not dumbing down, it's giving people with less technical
>>> knowledge an easier way to install the operating system without
>>> confusing them with "BTFRS FW LVM OMFG BBQ" and just using "These are
>>> sensible defaults" and letting people with more knowledge customize
>>> the install to their liking.
>>
>> The installer does that pretty much now.
>>
>> For those who want more control, you can tweak things at the end of the
>> selections right before the installation starts.
>
>
> But there are choices that should be done right at the start, before the
> automatics decide what packages to install, or what partitions to
> create. Like installing for a laptop or a desktop.
>
> Doing that type of customization is complex.

And for a user who doesn't know what to do, the defaults are sane
defaults in the majority of cases.

Jim



--
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

robin_listas
04-Aug-2014, 20:38
On 2014-08-05 03:11, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2014 23:48:10 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:


>> Doing that type of customization is complex.
>
> And for a user who doesn't know what to do, the defaults are sane
> defaults in the majority of cases.

Except on the case I mention: the DVD doing a desktop type install on a
laptop, for instance.

Hibernation should be configured, tools and applets for conserving
battery...

Or the other way round, getting laptop mode tools installed on a
desktop, because the installation thinks it detected a laptop.


Or people getting that kernel that is really optimized for a server, on
a desktop, so that responsibility is slower (interrupt timer frequency,
mostly).


I really think that the installation should have a clickable place
somewhere to choose the machine type and installation type, and not
requiring expert mode to reach them. Out of the way, yes. The setting
does not exist at all, anyway... not even in advanced settings.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))

hendersj
05-Aug-2014, 09:00
On Tue, 05 Aug 2014 03:38:09 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Except on the case I mention: the DVD doing a desktop type install on a
> laptop, for instance.
>
> Hibernation should be configured, tools and applets for conserving
> battery...
>
> Or the other way round, getting laptop mode tools installed on a
> desktop, because the installation thinks it detected a laptop.

So open bugzilla entries for that. Carlos, you know how this is
addressed in the openSUSE distro - and it's not by complaining to a group
of non-developers. :)

Jim
--
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

jonte1
05-Aug-2014, 09:08
A already good tread is even getting better after some input from experience users. No I'm judge at anyone :P.

regards

robin_listas
05-Aug-2014, 15:14
On 2014-08-05 18:00, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Aug 2014 03:38:09 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> So open bugzilla entries for that. Carlos, you know how this is
> addressed in the openSUSE distro - and it's not by complaining to a group
> of non-developers. :)

And you think I did not? Tsk, tsk, you should know me better. ;-)

(no, I was not complaining, I know this group has no power. I'm a user
grumbling with fellow users.)



The idea was declined by the people that "do it".


--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))

jonte1
11-Sep-2014, 07:02
Run a zypper dup on a VM factory 13.2 today, -how nice to see some new colours/themes! What ever it will be in the end I will accept it (even if I prefer darker colours as mentioned before) :).

But teasers like this keep up the interest for people like me that are not only interested in what's behind (under?) the hood.

http://www.jodo.nu/pic/pic/snapshot48.jpeghttp://www.jodo.nu/pic/pic/snapshot49.jpeg

regards

jonte1
19-Sep-2014, 04:27
Installed snapshot20140915(KDE) of 13.2 Factory today. I still have problem (to like) with this green "accent". Some people says that I'm partly colour blind ;). Another thing that I see is the "new" YaST2 and new icons there, -sort of remind me of Gnome2. I cant explain why that thought came up. Personal opinions of course .

http://www.jodo.nu/pic/pic2/snapshot55.jpeg


regards

jonte1
20-Sep-2014, 08:52
Have been following with great interest the effort put in by a sponsored car (openSUSEmobile ?) and travel to attend a booth on Linux related events.

I and others like to read/see what we like to do, the Geeko (seen from behind) is it a mutant moose-Geeko with this yellow horns?

With a blink in my eye.

http://www.jodo.nu/pic/pic2/snapshot56_1.jpeg

regards

Paspie
20-Sep-2014, 13:56
I feel like if there are two things openSUSE has missed out on most compared to Linux contemporaries, it has been advertising and images. There are some non-geeks that may have heard of Ubuntu, but not the back-end, the same is true in an even bigger way with Android. Both Mageia, Elementary and Linux Mint have made huge headway into improving the image of FOS operating systems (by which the website design, promotional videos, and other media). openSUSE on the other hand has kinda stood by the wayside...still a polished platform but with a vision that would put most people to sleep.

Something is needed to make 'SUSE something people can relate to like they can with the up-and-comers of today. The first step? Clean up this site. A Wiki is great but it should not be the front-end that everyone has to shift through to get information. A more stylish navigation system for the basic features, screenshots and links is what I think could be a catalyst for brand revitalisation.

holden87
21-Sep-2014, 02:05
Yep, but as i understood, manpower is always an issue. But if you have any idea how to tackle the issue, please, do join in the conversation. (http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_lists)

Paspie
29-Sep-2014, 03:05
Discard what I wrote above, I think I'm taking the whole thing a tad too seriously. On another note, is there any possibility of an English version of the SUSE box? Is there enough demand compared to a German version? Is there demand for broader retail distribution than on just one site?

robin_listas
29-Sep-2014, 05:15
On 2014-09-29 12:06, Paspie wrote:
>
> Discard what I wrote above, I think I'm taking the whole thing a tad too
> seriously. On another note, is there any possibility of an English
> version of the SUSE box? Is there enough demand compared to a German
> version? Is there demand for broader retail distribution than on just
> one site?

To my knowledge, there was one business doing it. They even gave some
phone/email support. But I think they disappeared, not heard of them on
an long time. I don't remember the name... :-? slox?

If they existed still, the link would be on
http://shop.opensuse.org/, and it is not...

Pity.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)