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rain922
27-Sep-2012, 18:43
I thought in 12.2 Opensuse was going to release an app store market approach to installing applications?
Doing this will greatly increase marketing, not only Opensuse but linux use in general.

glistwan
28-Sep-2012, 01:14
Use this to report new features :
https://features.opensuse.org/

Steam will increase marketing of linux much greater IMHO and they are already beta testing :)
Steam Internal Beta Next Week, External Beta To Follow (http://www.thepowerbase.com/2012/09/steam-internal-beta-next-week-external-beta-to-follow/)

anika200
20-Jan-2013, 15:30
I thought in 12.2 Opensuse was going to release an app store market approach to installing applications?
Doing this will greatly increase marketing, not only Opensuse but linux use in general.

I agree, an app store would be huge. There really is no argument against it at this point seeing how things have turned out for the apple and android app store and user base.
Implementing such a thing would be a major undertaking though and I just do not see the resources for it in the openSUSE community. What we really need to do is have all the distros partner together for a universal app store. This would promote linux and what ever distro you want, good for everybody.

futureboy
24-Jun-2013, 01:21
It's really not a bad idea. I would say that the software.opensuse.org pages are much like it but are not really... new user friendly... There also is the lack of the advertising of new apps portion of it as well. The other question would be, how do you make money on something that you can install for free. I suppose advertising space, similar to what Facebook does, would probably be the best route. Pull in enough traffic, making it super user friendly and easy to use would be a good way to at least start it off.

Paspie
01-Jul-2013, 15:48
Just as long as we don't fall down the traps of the Ubuntu Software Center. If we can make a compromise between a package manager and the app store (e.g including all the libraries and dependencies in a separate category) then we can go a long way into providing a good experience for noobies and geeks alike. We also ought to incorporate some of the features that are presently only available on the site, such as the more up-to-date packages we've got. Any branding or GUIs should be listed as sub-packages for one main group (e.g qjackctl for JACK) to make things less confusing.

Anything that can make the user experience less fragmented and vague gets my seal of approval.

MadmanRB
01-Jul-2013, 16:35
Yerah this is something I feel openSUSE is missing.
For as bad as Ubuntu software center is it does its job of making a clear easy to use interface that both the pro and newcomer can use.
And sure there is YAST but I dont think its as accessible to new users as it could be.

cra1g321
01-Jul-2013, 16:35
I would rather like to see some improvements / new features added to the software.opensuse.org page rather than a software-center.

I think having categories added to the page would be useful. For example tabs could be added, which could like - Popular Applications, Music/Video Players, Office applications, Photo/Video Editing.

I think this would make it easier for new and existing users to discover new and alternative programs, in the opensuse repos and on the OBS.

Plus I also dont like the way the page uses debian/ubuntu screenshots rather than opensuse screenshots.

MadmanRB
01-Jul-2013, 18:58
Well it does make sense as ubuntu and debian are more popular then openSUSE overall.
As for software on site eh that can go both ways as we do have the one click install method.

Paspie
02-Jul-2013, 06:25
One can't remove a package using the website though. There should be a polished and 'welcoming' way of doing both.

wolfi323
02-Jul-2013, 06:30
One can't remove a package using the website though. There should be a polished and 'welcoming' way of doing both.
You mean on software.opensuse.org?
That's just a search engine for all packages on OBS. Why should anybody be able to remove a package there?
Package Maintainers (or others with sufficient rights) can remove their packages on build.opensuse.org or with osc (the command line OBS client).

MadmanRB
02-Jul-2013, 07:54
Maybe it can be sort of like Ubuntu software center/ Mint software center though not nearly as limited.

robin_listas
02-Jul-2013, 11:53
On 2013-07-02 16:56, MadmanRB wrote:
>
> Maybe it can be sort of like Ubuntu software center/ Mint software
> center though not nearly as limited.

What's the advantage?
Please describe it for people that have never used Ubuntu.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

MadmanRB
02-Jul-2013, 13:43
Sure

Ubuntu software center is a very basic package managment tool and looks like this:

http://i.stack.imgur.com/LiNBA.png

As you can see its very basic, but thats because its meant to be.
It features large icons, prices (where applicable) and the application name on its main page and when you click on an app it will tell you what its about.
Now this is both a good and a bad software installer, for basic package management it actually works quite well.
But if you add stuff like extra repos and the like it becomes cumbersome forcing one to often resort to command line.
It needs a refresh button but will Ubuntu have one?
Nope you want more complex use the terminal.
This is where the mint software center gets its cudos:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Mint_software_manager.png

While lacking the same flash as its counterpart the current mint software center in mint 15 offers many features that Ubuntu software center doesnt like the ability to refresh.
Now you may say it looks like apper, but apper doesnt have as many features.

Now of course there is Yast, keep it around for more experienced users but also have a more accessible UI for new users.
To be honest I never really found Yasts software manager that good for beginners, now I can get it but if you never used lin ux before it really lacks simplicity.

robin_listas
02-Jul-2013, 19:48
On 2013-07-02 22:46, MadmanRB wrote:
>
> Sure
>
> Ubuntu software center is a very basic package managment tool and looks
> like this:
>
> [image: http://i.stack.imgur.com/LiNBA.png]

I can see it is more attractive. Maybe it is easier to find an
application for solving a task. YaST is more technical -- and no, I do
not find yast difficult at all. Not even back in 1998 did I find it
difficult.


To get something of that kind, somebody has to design it, and then
somebody else has to assign resources to maintain it. I don't see it
happening. Not soon. And asking for it here leads nowhere, the decision
makers do not read this forum.


--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

Paspie
04-Jul-2013, 05:14
Yeah, but my point is we shouldn't have to remove features to make it easier for beginners. Having separate applications seems like an after-thought to me, and by combining the YAST Software Manager toolset and say, the aesthetics and layout of the 'software center' type app, we can remove fragmentation and make life easier for developers and package managers.

kalten
04-Jul-2013, 06:01
Speaking of easy to use package management software, when I first saw Apper in openSUSE I thought that was the beginner friendly side of the openSUSE distribution (like Synaptic and old Ubuntu Software Center in the old days). Software categories, nice icons... I tend to use YaST for administration and tell beginners to use Apper.

Even if Apper (formerly known as "KPackageKit") is, for the moment, far from being as user friendly as Ubuntu Software Center, I prefer Apper because it's a cross distribution solution and this is what I like in open source community: share of work :). What a waste of time and energy to start all over again!

I think the huge advantage of Ubuntu Software Center over Apper is that you can buy software within. People may be interested by that or take it for granted. I personally prefer to manage the software I buy my-self...

Anyway, as robin_listas pointed out, "the decision makers do not read this forum". But I couldn't refrain my from replying!

DenverD
04-Jul-2013, 06:28
On 07/04/2013 02:16 PM, Paspie wrote:
> we can remove fragmentation and make life easier for developers and
> package managers.

do you (and the others here who propose and endorse the idea of an
app store even better than Ubuntu and whose?) include yourself in
that "we" who will volunteer their time and talent to do the actual
work required to build, populate and maintain the app store?

of course maintaining would be a near constant task of removal of
outdated packages, and the inclusion of their replacements and and
incorporation of the new latest and greatest gizmos, do-dads and
what-nots..

and, normally there is also a relatively constant influx of new ideas
and _needs_ to be incorporated into existing things like YaST,
zypper, the searcher at software.opensuse.org or even a new app
store...all to make it easier for users . . .

--
dd

DenverD
04-Jul-2013, 06:39
On 07/04/2013 03:06 PM, kalten wrote:
> What a waste of time and
> energy to start all over again!

i agree!

i wonder though, since YaST is very old (from the '90s i believe) why
did all of those people who wanted to make apper "waste their time
and energy" by starting all over again to make something that does
what YaST Software Management, YaST Online Update and zypper did
better, already years before either kpackagekit or apper started up
to replicate _existing_ capability....but introduce instability,
inconsistencies, bugs and turmoil?

--
dd

consused
04-Jul-2013, 09:04
why did all of those people who wanted to make apper "waste their time and energy" by starting all over again to make something that does what YaST Software Management, YaST Online Update and zypper did better
To provide cross-distro package management software i.e. PackageKit. Apper was produced for KDE. Neither PackageKit nor Apper were produced for [open]SUSE.

kalten
04-Jul-2013, 09:11
On 07/04/2013 03:06 PM, kalten wrote:
> What a waste of time and
> energy to start all over again!

i agree!

i wonder though, since YaST is very old (from the '90s i believe) why
did all of those people who wanted to make apper "waste their time
and energy" by starting all over again to make something that does
what YaST Software Management, YaST Online Update and zypper did
better, already years before either kpackagekit or apper started up
to replicate _existing_ capability....but introduce instability,
inconsistencies, bugs and turmoil?

--
dd

Touché!

I think that packagekit and its GUIs were born because it's difficult to use one software manager from one distribution to another. Speaking of YaST, the project aiming at porting it into Debian, yast4debian (http://yast4debian.alioth.debian.org/), halted.

EDIT: consused was faster!

Paspie
04-Jul-2013, 10:55
Surely its more time and energy trying to maintain software.opensuse.org, the package manager repos, the yast app itself and apper. We should be able to get ourselves into a situation where we only need one tool to rule them all.

In any case, Apper is not included with openSUSE (at least on my version) so would be useless for the beginner. There is not enough coherency between the various apps.

Finally, I hope we're not becoming a recipe company like Apple is, trying to compile all the best 'stuff' from third parties and selling it off as their own. At least the Ubuntu and Linux Mint organisations have actually tried something new and innovative, regarding the Cinnamon and Unity environments (not that I'm a fan of Debian-based distros though).

consused
04-Jul-2013, 11:24
In any case, Apper is not included with openSUSE (at least on my version) so would be useless for the beginner.
It is included with openSUSE. The beginner needs a desktop environment. If KDE is installed, then Apper is installed.

Jonathan_R
04-Jul-2013, 12:22
It is included with openSUSE. The beginner needs a desktop environment. If KDE is installed, then Apper is installed.

+1

Apper is part of KDE and is installed by default.

Paspie
04-Jul-2013, 16:03
Just saw a few screenshots of Apper (not at the desktop currently), looks pretty good from what I can see. So, can anyone fathom why it isn't the only tool installed by default? Why do we still have the YaST tools? No matter how good the tools are they are worthless if they are duplicated across the system. Why can't we take the best of both and bung them into one app? ATM it seems incredibly unprofessional to me.

Jonathan_R
04-Jul-2013, 16:34
Just saw a few screenshots of Apper (not at the desktop currently), looks pretty good from what I can see. So, can anyone fathom why it isn't the only tool installed by default? Why do we still have the YaST tools? No matter how good the tools are they are worthless if they are duplicated across the system. Why can't we take the best of both and bung them into one app? ATM it seems incredibly unprofessional to me.

YaST isn't just to install software. That's but one module. There are many such modules that make up YaST. It seems to me, that you don't know or understand YaST. You should put some time and research in. Then if you still have questions, you can ask and they'll be a lot better suited.

Paspie
04-Jul-2013, 17:15
I was referring to the software management app in YAST, not the rest of it.

robin_listas
04-Jul-2013, 17:48
On 2013-07-04 19:56, Paspie wrote:
> In any case, Apper is not included with openSUSE (at least on my
> version) so would be useless for the beginner.

Apper is a KDE tool, and it is installed by default if you install KDE.
If you install Gnome you get a simpler but similar tool.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

robin_listas
04-Jul-2013, 17:48
On 2013-07-04 14:16, Paspie wrote:
>
> Yeah, but my point is we shouldn't have to remove features to make it
> easier for beginners. Having separate applications seems like an
> after-thought to me, and by combining the YAST Software Manager toolset
> and say, the aesthetics and layout of the 'software center' type app, we
> can remove fragmentation and make life easier for developers and package
> managers.

I do not like that idea at all, it would be a huge mistake.

YaST should stay as it is, a very good, stable, feature rich, package
manager. You can add a separate web tool to find the appropriate
application for your need, and then trigger yast or apper or oneclick to
do the actual installation. An extension of the OBS search frontend.


--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

robin_listas
04-Jul-2013, 17:53
On 2013-07-05 01:06, Paspie wrote:
>
> Just saw a few screenshots of Apper (not at the desktop currently),
> looks pretty good from what I can see. So, can anyone fathom why it
> isn't the only tool installed by default?

Because it is a TERRIBLE tool. Many of us hate apper and remove it from
our systems as soon as we can. >:-)

--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

chief_sealth
04-Jul-2013, 18:43
I was referring to the software management app in YAST, not the rest of it.

YaST has an excellent software manager tool, there's no reason to replace it. If something like Apper can compliment it, that's fine. Once you understand how it works, you'll appreciate YaST much more. Apper is designed for simplicity, and loses many features in doing so.

Paspie
05-Jul-2013, 02:44
On 2013-07-05 01:06, Paspie wrote:
>
> Just saw a few screenshots of Apper (not at the desktop currently),
> looks pretty good from what I can see. So, can anyone fathom why it
> isn't the only tool installed by default?

Because it is a TERRIBLE tool. Many of us hate apper and remove it from
our systems as soon as we can.That's exactly what I mean. Why do we have it when the stuff that ships with YAST is already adequate. Are you getting it? I have been using it and similar types of tools pretty much since my first foray into Linux-based OSes and found few issues. Complimentary apps such as Apper are a waste of time. If they don't work for everyone, don't install them by default. It's that simple.

Anyway, I've kinda run dry of ammunition, I am just eager to break new mould rather than just evolution all the time.

consused
05-Jul-2013, 03:44
That's exactly what I mean. Why do we have it when the stuff that ships with YAST is already adequate.
And you still don't get it. ;) It's not adequate for all users and all situations. YaST is an excellent tool for system administrators of multi-user systems, and for single-user machines where the user either enjoys spending time on system administration tasks, has many issues to solve, or just prefers it. However, YaST does not provide the general user with a desktop notifier for available package updates, the main reason why Apper arrived in KDE and openSUSE.

Personally, I am very pleased to have both Apper and YaST available. I've used Apper (notifier and updater) to install all of its package updates on my 12.2 and 12.3 systems, and it hasn't dropped the ball. I don't need YaST for that job, and prefer the convenience of Apper where it doesn't require Authentication for me to update my system.

As Jonathan_R suggested, "You should put some time and research in".

wolfi323
05-Jul-2013, 03:56
Complimentary apps such as Apper are a waste of time. If they don't work for everyone, don't install them by default. It's that simple.
But it was YOU who said, Apper looks fine, and why not get rid of YaST!>:)

Apper/PackageKit was designed as cross-distribution tool from the start, that's an advantage and a disadvantage at the same time:
Advantage: bigger userbase, it looks the same on all distributions, users (who come from other distros) are already familiar with it...
Disadvantage: can't support all the details of the specific distribution because it has to use the lowest common denominators of all distros

Where as YaST->Software Management was designed specificly for openSUSE (libzypp in particular), so it supports (nearly) everything that libzypp can do and PackageKit not like f.e. Package locks and Dependency conflict resolution.

Isn't it great that you can choose among several tools for the same tasks, and use that one that best fits your needs/peculiarities?;)

robin_listas
05-Jul-2013, 04:08
On 2013-07-05 11:46, Paspie wrote:


>That's exactly what I mean. Why do we have it when the stuff that ships
> with YAST is already adequate. Are you getting it?

Because one of the features of Linux is *choice*.

We don't have one tool for each task, we have as many as we can. Why
don't we have just one desktop only, ie, LXDE? That should suffice for
everybody, it does everuthing we require. But wait, no, we also have
XFCE, with more features and a larger memory footprint. Ah, yes, there
is also Gnome. Oh, wait, there is also, whats its name... ah, KDE -
they'd kill me if I forget that one. >:-)

There is CHOICE.

So, people like me use YaST. Or zypper, or even RPM! Some prefer apper,
because it automatically installs updates without requiring the admin
password.

Choice.


Besides, apper is not done by openSUSE, it is an external tool,
cross-distro. openSUSE does just a few libraries to connect it with
libzyp, and hooks in libzyp perhaps. Many distros have apper, why should
we not have it?


> Anyway, I've kinda run dry of ammunition, I am just eager to break new
> mould rather than just evolution all the time.

You want an app market? Go ahead, do it. There is freedom, anybody can
do what he likes. Just do it, support it, and maybe people will flock to
it. Or maybe not. :-)

--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

kalten
05-Jul-2013, 13:36
[...]
Because one of the features of Linux is *choice*.

[...]

I cannot agree more! This is why we have the greatest flame wars in the universe. And I must admit I like that.

I prefer vi by the way ;).

robin_listas
05-Jul-2013, 15:33
On 2013-07-05 22:46, kalten wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2569596 Wrote:
>>
>>
>> [...]
>> Because one of the features of Linux is *choice*.
>>
>> [...]
>
> I cannot agree more! This is why we have the greatest flame wars in the
> universe. And I must admit I like that.
>
> I prefer vi by the way ;).

ROTFL!

me, Word Star :-p

--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

DenverD
05-Jul-2013, 23:04
On 07/05/2013 10:46 PM, kalten wrote:
> I prefer vi by the way;).

only a professional flame catcher would make such a statement!

truly bright folks use mc, by the way! ;)

--
dd

Jonathan_R
06-Jul-2013, 11:48
On 07/05/2013 10:46 PM, kalten wrote:
> I prefer vi by the way;).

only a professional flame catcher would make such a statement!

truly bright folks use mc, by the way! ;)

--
dd


Gee. I thought bright folks used Emacs.

hendersj
06-Jul-2013, 12:50
On Sat, 06 Jul 2013 18:56:02 +0000, Jonathan R wrote:

> Gee. I thought bright folks used Emacs.

Nah, only people who love overly complex stuff. [scnr]

Jim
--
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

MadmanRB
27-Jul-2013, 20:46
On 2013-07-05 01:06, Paspie wrote:
>
> Just saw a few screenshots of Apper (not at the desktop currently),
> looks pretty good from what I can see. So, can anyone fathom why it
> isn't the only tool installed by default?

Because it is a TERRIBLE tool. Many of us hate apper and remove it from
our systems as soon as we can. >:-)

--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

Yeah Apper is quite sub par.
I rather have something like Muon or Yumex
And yes I am using Fedora right now, why do you ask? :D