Linux "bloated and huge" says Linus

[microchip8]

In a round table discussion at LinuxCon 2009, Linus Torvalds said the Linux kernel has become "bloated and huge".

Linux "Bloated and Huge" says Linus - News - The H Open Source: News and Features

[Knurpht]

from the same article:

Part of the problem is that the success of Linux has meant it runs on many platforms and has features and device support for all of them. Asked if the bloat was acceptable, Torvalds said "No, I'm not saying that. Acceptable and avoidable are two different things. It's unacceptable but it's also probably unavoidable".

[Confuseling]

Linus calls Linux 'bloated and huge' • The Register

"Okay, so the summary of this is that you expect that 12 per cent to be back to where it should be next year, and you expect someone else to come up with a plan to do it," joked Bottomley. "That's open source."

[consused]

Hmm, interesting as the comments are, I wonder how significant this is, if one considers the whole linux distribution?

As users upgrade hardware to accomodate yearly decreases in performance, due to more function in applications, and improving multimedia quality, will they notice that 2% per annum?

I can understand why Intel would like to know how and why the linux kernel is feeding the takeup of improving, and presumably more profitable, processor technolgy.

[microchip8]

No wonder the kernel is getting bloated when you constantly add new drivers and such. Linus is looking from code-side point of view and of course that's bloated with so many things in it, especially drivers and file systems. However looking from another point of view, a custom-configured and compiled kernel, it can be made pretty small with only the absolute minimum one would need.

As for the kernel getting slows, I've experienced the exact opposite here on my desktops, especially on the interactivity side which is part of performance measures. Comparing older kernels with the old O(1) scheduler against the new CFS O(log N) scheduler, I find my apps to be much snappier and starting faster too

[TaraIkeda]

Bloat is bound to happen no matter what OS you use, as more features are added the bigger the bigger the bloat.

[pontke]

It is inevitable for a monolithic kernel, which is what Linux, Windows, and Unix is. I did research on monolithic kernels vs microkernels. I found from my research that both designs have their share of problems. Monolithic kernels have problems with size, maintainability, and sometimes stability, but they do well on performance. Microkernels are very small, but they suffer from performance problems due to overhead imposed by numerous external calls for basic system functions such as drivers and file systems.

I think the best design would be a hybrid approach. It may be better for Linux in the long run to remove from the kernel (into external components) what can be removed without consequence. I think Linux is kind of working in that direction anyway with dynamically loadable/unloadable modules.

[microchip8]

Hint: Windows is hybrid and so is OS X

[incognito9]

Originally Posted by pontke

It is inevitable for a monolithic kernel, which is what Linux, Windows, and Unix is. I did research on monolithic kernels vs microkernels. I found from my research that both designs have their share of problems. Monolithic kernels have problems with size, maintainability, and sometimes stability, but they do well on performance. Microkernels are very small, but they suffer from performance problems due to overhead imposed by numerous external calls for basic system functions such as drivers and file systems.

I think the best design would be a hybrid approach. It may be better for Linux in the long run to remove from the kernel (into external components) what can be removed without consequence. I think Linux is kind of working in that direction anyway with dynamically loadable/unloadable modules.

I thought Windows was based on Mach?

[incognito9]

The good news is that, since Linus has started this dialog, it's likely that something will actually be done about it.