Windows 7 in EU without Browser!

[Caleb_IX]

Working to Fulfill our Legal Obligations in Europe for Windows 7 - Microsoft On The Issues

"We’ve also worked hard to ensure that Windows 7 will promote choice and competition in the computer industry, in keeping with our Windows Principles. We’ve held hands-on workshops with hundreds of industry partners to ensure they have the information they need to build products that work well with Windows 7. Customers running Windows 7 will be able to choose compatible products from among literally thousands of computer manufacturers, peripheral manufacturers, and software vendors.

The worldwide launch of Windows 7 is fast approaching, but a pending legal case raises concerns about the sufficiency of competition among the Web browsers that are available to Windows users in Europe. In January the European Commission provided its preliminary view that Microsoft’s “bundling” of Internet Explorer in Windows violated European competition law."

Thats nice for the browsers...but still not enough...there is still no free choice with the operating system...

[kastorff]

On 2009-06-12 07:06:02 -0400, Caleb IX
<Caleb_IX@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> said:

>
> 'Working to Fulfill our Legal Obligations in Europe for Windows 7 -
> Microsoft On The Issues' (http://tinyurl.com/mt7aty)
>
> "We’ve also worked hard to ensure that Windows 7 will promote
> choice and competition in the computer industry, in keeping with our
> Windows Principles. We’ve held hands-on workshops with hundreds
> of industry partners to ensure they have the information they need to
> build products that work well with Windows 7. Customers running Windows
> 7 will be able to choose compatible products from among literally
> thousands of computer manufacturers, peripheral manufacturers, and
> software vendors.
>
> The worldwide launch of Windows 7 is fast approaching, but a pending
> legal case raises concerns about the sufficiency of competition among
> the Web browsers that are available to Windows users in Europe. In
> January the European Commission provided its preliminary view that
> Microsoft’s “bundling” of Internet Explorer in Windows
> violated European competition law."
>
> Thats nice for the browsers...but still not enough...there is still no
> free choice with the operating system...

Microsoft has certainly done it's share to create and sustain a
monopoly with Windows as an OS and with Microsoft Office, but it's just
not what it once was, with other options more visible and available
than ever before. The whole EU versus Microsoft thing is comical to me,
in how far the EU keeps going to achieve something that has nothing to
do with monopolies, but more to do with punishing Microsoft. Microsoft
keeps giving them what they ask for, but not what they want. The EU
doesn't want MS to stop shipping IE as a default browser, they want to
use Microsoft to promote competing browsers. MS offers a version of
Windows without IE as a browser, and that isn't enough for the EU. The
EU wants an installation wizard that will offer a choice of browsers
and install one as an alternative to IE. The want MS to either bundle
alternative browsers with Windows, or offer a way to download an
alternative at install time. That's hilarious.

Think of a government insisting that Toyota not only ship a car with no
built in engine, but offer installation of competitors' engines at
point of sale...

--
Keith Kastorff

[syampillai]

Why EU is worried about only browser and media players? Windo$ monopoly is not just from these 2 areas.

[Chrysantine]

Originally Posted by kastorff

Think of a government insisting that Toyota not only ship a car with no built in engine, but offer installation of competitors' engines at point of sale...

If Toyota had 90% market share of cars, then maybe they should

As for the matter at hand, EU didn't really have a choice in the matter - they had to follow their own laws regarding the matter. The original suit was filed by Opera, later joined by Mozilla and Google.

EU also didn't demand unbundling IE, Microsoft did that.

[Chrysantine]

Originally Posted by syampillai

Why EU is worried about only browser and media players? Windo$ monopoly is not just from these 2 areas.

Because in both cases external companies filed the suit claiming that Microsoft was abusing their dominant market share to engage in anti-competitive practices.

[syampillai]

At least I like one thing about EU is that they are really taking some actions, unlike US (and other regions).

[microchip8]

The EU is currently sniffing around at various HW manufacturers and asking them if MS has done any pressure/lobbying to tie them into Windows. This ain't over yet... far from it. I expect the EU to drop another nuke onto MS in the not too distant future

[consused]

Originally Posted by kastorff

...The whole EU versus Microsoft thing is comical to me,
in how far the EU keeps going to achieve something that has nothing to
do with monopolies, but more to do with punishing Microsoft. Microsoft
keeps giving them what they ask for, but not what they want.

Unfortunately, it's neither comical or hilarious. The EU wants the fines paid. A total disregard of EU competition law in the past by MicroSoft, requires a proportionally tough response. It may seem unreasonable, but not when taken in context of past behavior, and the scale of the infringement i.e. it's punishment. It's also an attempt to mitigate the imbalance in the market.

Think of a government insisting that Toyota not only ship a car with no built in engine, but offer installation of competitors' engines at
point of sale...

I agree with Chrysantine. It's the wrong example since Toyota doesn't dominate the EU marketplace in the way Microsoft did and still does.

[kastorff]

On 2009-06-12 18:46:02 -0400, consused
<consused@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> said:

>
> kastorff;1998796 Wrote:
>> ...The whole EU versus Microsoft thing is comical to me,
>> in how far the EU keeps going to achieve something that has nothing to
>> do with monopolies, but more to do with punishing Microsoft. Microsoft
>> keeps giving them what they ask for, but not what they want.
> Unfortunately, it's neither comical or hilarious. The EU wants the
> fines paid. A total disregard of EU competition law in the past by
> MicroSoft, requires a proportionally tough response. It may seem
> unreasonable, but not when taken in context of past behavior, and the
> scale of the infringement i.e. it's punishment. It's also an attempt
> to mitigate the imbalance in the market.
>
>> Think of a government insisting that Toyota not only ship a car with no
>> built in engine, but offer installation of competitors' engines at
>> point of sale...
> I agree with Chrysantine. It's the wrong example since Toyota doesn't
> dominate the EU marketplace in the way Microsoft did and still does.

Well, I'm allowed to laugh at the EU all I want. Each to their opinion.

It's too bad both you and Chrysantine decided to focus on the use of
"Toyota" in my analogy, and take it literally enough to challenge it on
some assessment of factual market share percentage. It was never a
intended as factual, and I thought that was obvious in context. I'll
remember to use something more generic next time. In my opinion, the
point of the analogy is still valid, in that the EU just looks silly
and arbitrary in the way they've handled the whole thing.

--
Keith Kastorff

[kastorff]

On 2009-06-12 14:26:01 -0400, Chrysantine
<Chrysantine@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> said:

> EU also didn't demand unbundling IE, Microsoft did that.

That's my understanding as well.


--
Keith Kastorff