Windows 7 in EU without Browser!

[ReferenceSeete]

Thanks Chysthantine, but I think we're considering slightly different things.

I understand that there have been many complaints from web designers, standards avocates, and FOSS supporters over the years for a W3C-compliant Internet Explorer - but I was thinging more about the EU. Since the EU has more power to issue sanctions against Microsoft, I was curious why issuing sanctions until a W3C-compliant IE was made doesn't seem to be an option.

The underlying issue is by what means is IE anti-competitive? Is it anti-competitive because it is not W3C-compliant? Or because it is bundled with Windows? Or both? And if both is the issue of compliance why bundling is bad? The answer to this issue is paramount to see if the current course of action makes sense.

I think "stagnate" is the wrong word because it does mean 'standstill', so to say 'the web is stagnated because of IE' is not true. I agree that IE has caused a lot a needless trouble for web designers and non-IE users, but stagnate is too strong a depiction.

I think Firefox's success had to do with it being open-source and extensions. Opera could have made in-roads on FOSS systems but distro philosophies kept them out of many default installs. Firefox gained a foothold on non-Windows machines and was further boosted by being cross-platform - this gave them a mass of technically-minded people who could vouch for Firefox on the interpersonal level. I'm not sure how the association with Google or even AOL helped Mozilla spread Firefox. Certainly on the payroll side, but how would that translate into users? There was no sustained formal marketing effort Mozilla was able to launch due to its associations.

I think Opera Software ASA makes a great browser (beta 1 of ver. 10 is highly impressive), but they cannot solely blame MS for their lack of marketshare on the Windows desktop. On the whole Opera Software ASA & Mozilla Foundation/Corporation compete in the same environment - MS ships IE with Windows and Windows is the dominant OS. Mozilla found a way to break through, Opera hasn't. Worse still for Opera's case is that Firefox is most popular today in EU member states.

I too would like a more standards-compliant browser ecosystem where competition is based on features. I just don't see why the road to that scenario involves 'creatively repackaging' today's situation.

[zak89]

I am actually somewhat more interested in knowing if the EU requires all of these web browsers to be installed on all government computers so that those users have the option to choose which one they prefer. If anyone has a concrete answer to this please post it. It would be interesting to know if they are taking all measures available to promote competition or possibly just trying to pinch some fine money out of a wealthy company and create a little controversy.

Heh heh. Consistency is a rare jewel, rare indeed...

I think that pulling the browser from the OS is a fine idea. Like kastorff's excellent analogy, making MS act as free advertising for their own competition is a joke. Not a very funny one, but that's about as good as the EU gets for humor these days.

If they really think that bundling a browser is anticompetitive (after all, OS X and most Linux distros don't come bundled with a web browser, right?) than leave out the browser. Simple. This "ballot" nonsense is laughable; can some point to any other industry where you are forced to offer you competitor's products? Why here?

[hito_kiri]

I too would go with making MS conform to W3C standards. I have no problem with MS bundling IE with Windoze, after all like said before how is someone supposed to download a browser without having one in the first place? My problem is with all the proprietary code that keeps me from viewing sites properly or at all. That is one thing that really gets on my nerves with Myspace, certain things (picture uploads being a main one) will just not work unless you are on Windows. I have tried uploading pictures on a few different linux distros and it doesn't work on any of them. It barely works in a Windows virtual machine.

[whych]

As an ex-windows sys/network admin that has also done his fair share of web development, there are many sites that only support IE. Indeed all M$ software is guaranteed to generate code that is only IE compatible.
This is my main truck with developers and isp's who say:
We only support windows, because that's the easiest and what we know. Don't ask anything that requires an undestanding of anything.
With a website, surely it should be os and browser neutral so we can give you information of what we do.
Also, not everyone has a superfast connection so keep the graphics down- many people still use dial-up!
My main truck with M$ is that they have made it too easy for cowboys to become progammers/experts without understanding what they are doing.
Try using any visual studio version for database programming and use a non admin account and see what happens.
As a db Admin I must give the programmer admin (in linux root access) rights to play willy-nilly with the database.
No wonder M$ software is a hacker's paradise.
BTW, I have been Windows-free for 18 months and only use it when I have to.)

[saahne]

Come on guys, just get the facts!

Windows Internet Explorer 8: Get the facts

[TimButterworth]

I think it is safe to say that everyone would like to see IE become W3C compliant and to see Microsoft release the specifications and source code with a full reuse license for MSXML, .NET and there other proprietary web programming extensions and modifications.
Targeting their web browser for anti-competition is likely not going to make that happen. What we really need is global laws enforcing interoperability as well as global patent reform. Technology patents and the patent trolls that are cropping up around them do more to stagnate and stifle innovation and interoperability than any other single issue in the technology industry, in my opinion anyway.

[syampillai]

Originally Posted by saahne

Come on guys, just get the facts!

Windows Internet Explorer 8: Get the facts

What greatness do you see there?

[mmarif4u]

Originally Posted by syampillai

What greatness do you see there?

Read reason 6, some thing very funny. Recover from craches...haha

[math3z]

My opinion on this topic is, that I don't agree with Microsoft corporation monopoly on the operating systems field at all. However, the interference of European Commission was really bottomless. Imagine.. real Windows Seven without Internet Explorer in the original bundling?! That's like my Creative sound-card without the X-Fi chip. And what for the Opera Software ASA company, I actually use their web browser because of the overall impressive quality.. but I'm somehow not very keen on their behaviour.

[saahne]

Originally Posted by syampillai

What greatness do you see there?

I was going to say none whatsoever but their marketing is comically great.