Wife orders new PC with no OS ... possible openSUSE candidate

English Open Chat
21

Indeed there is space on the drives, as the new PC will come with a 500 GB SATA, and my wife will have a spare 500 GB IDE. But I am unclear if the SATA/IDE contoller in the Asus P7H55-M, H55 motherboard is friendly with W7 and also with Linux. I’ve read horror stories of W7 users not being able to have both a SATA and IDE drive in their PC, and I’ve also read the same for Linux with a mix of SATA/IDE drives. I assume those horror stores are motherboard SATA/IDE controller dependent. Hence if I want to embark on this plan, I prefer to know in advance it will work.

One thing I found wrt my wife, is she does not have the same patience I have with PCs. If there is any hiccup in the installation process, she tends to make draconian decisions, where typically Linux comes out second best (as she gives Windoze priority).

22

What I mean is, go buy a second 500GB SATA disk. In fact they are the smallest capacity SATAs made now and about $40 US. Well worth the saving in time trying to ascertain compatibility.

Edit: I mean, do it like this:

2x500GB SATA disks

Install Linux on sdb, but put GRUB boot sector on sda, which is otherwise empty.

Later disconnect sdb and install W7 on sda. W7 will not be able to harm Linux but will wipe out MBR.

Restore GRUB MBR to sda with rescue system.

23

Good point (and nice approach re: connecting/disconnecting SATA drives), although to do that I would have to do it discretely and present it as a ‘fait accomplis’ AFTER the PC arrives (possibly as a further Christmas present). My wife is working to a self imposed budget and she is extremely tight when spending even 1 euro more.

I’ve also been researching the motherboard some more … checking out the ASUS P7H55-M, H55 motherboard:

I note iXBT Labs has a glowing review on a similar mother board.

I also note the Asus page for the ASUS P7H55-M, H55 motherboard has lots of useful information.

Still, I wish I had done this checkout BEFORE purchase, but any delay in my providing an answer when my wife asked for confirmation of the prevous motherboard she selected (a Foxconn H55MXV, H55), could mean my wife would make a decision to do things differently (she has no patience for lengthy research on my part). Hence since the Asus only cost an extra 17 euros, I immediately convinced my wife to go for that. Another option was the Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H, H55 which is probably superior, but the Gigabyte was 34 euros more, and there is a world of difference between 17 and 34 euros in my wife’s eyes.

The ASUS P7H55-M, H55 also comes with ‘Express Gate’ (which is a Linux system) so one can be assured of reasonable Linux compatibility, even if one does not use ‘Express Gate’. My view is ‘Express Gate’ is useful more to me as a Linux compatibility stamp, than to use practically. … although … maybe my wife will see this different (and she may actually use the ‘Express Gate’ capability).

For data storage, it has an Intel® H55 Express Chipset built-in for SATA and a VIA VT6415 PATA controller for IDE, and I may research that wrt both win7 and Linux compatibility if one has BOTH a SATA drive and an IDE drive installed. Although that won’t be easy, and instead I may just ‘play this by ear’.

This motherboard has ‘on board’ graphics (Intel Clarkdale integrated Graphics Processing Unit (GPU)) but I can’t tell exactly what Intel graphics that is? (maybe Arrandale ? ) … Since we ordered a GeForce G210 card with this PC, I will need to ensure the Intel graphics are disabled, so that the nVidia GeForce G210 is used instead.

24

I can see that with a wife who jealously guards 17€, you will not have to worry about ending up in the poorhouse. lol!

25

I’ve been checking out the web page on this motherboard, … and in addition to having massive win7 downloads available, they also have massive winXP downloads available.

That winXP compatibilty was a surprise and not something I anticipated initially. … My wife likely will be pleased … and I guess I have to tell her! :frowning: … It will be interesting to see if that affects her win7 and Linux-Virtual-Box planning. :\

26

Indeed. I am very lucky that way. I had thought that I was tight with money , at least I thought that until I met her! :smiley:

27

I’m checking the VIA VT6415 PATA controller for IDE, and it appears it had problems with older kernels, and newer kernels where a typo effects 2.6.33-rc4 and newer. I see a fix on 18-July-2010 for this: [PATCH] via82cxxx: fix typo for VT6415 PCIE PATA IDE Host Controller support. (Linux IDE and SATA Storage)](http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-ide/msg38406.html)… so it is possible this IDE controller is broken in 11.3 … and whether that fix is in openSUSE-11.3 is unclear to me.

But I’m thinking its not important if my wife does not use an IDE device.

28

If you want to reuse the 500GB IDE disk: A quick search on eBay showed that you can get SATA to IDE disk adapters for a few bucks. That will take an element of uncertainty out of the planning since you will then have all SATA disks, at least as far the mobo is concerned.

29

Thats a great price for such an adapter.

I’m going to run that idea by my wife and see if she will agree to it. I note our local PC shop is selling a somewhat expensive version for 9.99 euro.

Its a digitus DS-33151, with web site here: IDE to SATA Adapter-DS-33151 | Digitus and some pix:

http://thumbnails30.imagebam.com/10762/f3180d107611741.jpg](ImageBam) . http://thumbnails27.imagebam.com/10762/cb7ddf107611746.jpg](ImageBam) . http://thumbnails35.imagebam.com/10762/702161107611792.jpg](ImageBam)

Now IF my wife is willing to go that route (so as to use her second 500 GB drive) then she may wish to procure it from our local PC shop instead of over the Internet, so as to give our local shop some business. The reason being, before she ordered her new PC over the Internet, she gave our local PC shop the opportunity to quote on a PC with the same specification as she ordered over the Internet. Our local PC shop was over 100 euros more in price for the new PC (compared to the Internet price (after shipping)), so in the end, my wife decided to order the PC over the Internet instead.

However my wife may like the idea of now sending very some business to the local PC shop, so as to make up for their effort expended in a quote that my wife did not accept.

30

From the looks of the picture, it seems this is physically designed to convert a SATA drive to PATA, but I can’t tell if the back connectors plug into a SATA drive or into SATA cables. If they have one in stock at your local PC shop, take a close look before you buy. I purchased one of these and it plugged right into the motherboard PATA plug and provided SATA connectors to use standard SATA cable up to the SATA drive. It had a floppy drive type power supply connection, while the one you show has the CDROM type power connection. The one I got I found could work either way, but it did not require a PATA cable to be used. Anyway, you got to be thinking how will it connect between the drive and the motherboard. Here is a pointer to what I am talking about. This one looks like it plugs directly into the drive and you use standard SATA cable to the motherboard.

Amazon.com: SATA to IDE/IDE to SATA Drive Interface Adapter: Electronics

Thank You,

31

I think I picked the correct one. If not, then the alternative is the Digitus 33150, with Digitus page here: SATA auf IDE Adapter-DS-33150 | Digitus and some pix:
http://thumbnails27.imagebam.com/10763/5021e6107621298.jpg](ImageBam) . http://thumbnails33.imagebam.com/10763/6cdc1b107621284.jpg](ImageBam) . http://thumbnails33.imagebam.com/10763/8e538f107621260.jpg](ImageBam)

They do have these at the local shop and I definitely will look first (and confirm with them).

thats interesting to know. I’ll check that out.

32

I double checked and I think you are correct. Our local shop has these labelled incorrectly (reversed). Going to the Digitus site I note:

**DS-33150 - Ermöglicht die Verwendung von IDE Storage Devices mit 40-poligem IDC-Stecker an einem Serial ATA Controller. (Which translates to: Allows the use of IDE storage devices with 40-pin IDC connector on a Serial ATA controller.)
**
DS-33151 - Ermöglicht die Verwendung von SATA Storage Devices an einem IDE-Controller… (Which translates to : Allows the use of SATA storage devices to an IDE controller.).

Hence it is a DS-33150 that I want (and not the DS-33151).

The price is the same for both at the local shop (9.99 euro).

Edit - I had major copy and paste problems. :slight_smile:

33

Yes, there are two types, to convert IDE ports on the mobo to SATA ports for SATA drives, and to convert IDE drives to SATA ports. It’s the 33150 you want.

34

oldcpu wrote:

> Use of the second 300GB drive (which is about 3 years old) is a viable
> option to work around some of the complexity. I need to check to see if
> this drive is SATA or IDE, as sometimes Linux struggles with having both
> SATA and IDE on the same PC (SATA controller chipset dependant).

Been using that configuration for some time now (old 250GB PATA drive
refuses to die!) with no problems. In fact, I manage several machines with
that configuration, not even counting the SATA hard drive - PATA CD/DVD
combos common a couple of years back.

> Of course, even IF I earmark the 300 GB drive as an option to solve
> win7 problems, I’m not “calling the shots” here, but my wife is :frowning: , and
> she may have other designs/plans for this 300 GB drive.

This is the brilliant part of your setup: she can’t blame you for everything
that goes wrong since it was HER idea! (get that in writing :wink: ).

–
Will Honea

35

Apologies, but I confess I am rather stubbornly reluctant to accept 100% the veracity of this, given what I discovered when surfing. I appreciate tremendously your caution, but I want to be certain, and so my most sincere apologies if I double check your excellent recommendation/cautions. Please don’t be upset at my questions and double checking, but if there is a 1% exception to your caution, where that exception lets me keep Linux when installing Windows 7, then I want to explore that option.

1) Use dd if=/dev/hda0 of=... to backup the partition table & boot area after Linux has been installed. Put it somewhere where you can use a live CD to restore it to the drive. This will keep Linux partitions safe from win 7.
2) Install Win 7 in your desired config. It will see the NTFS but may complain about the grub in mbr. If this occurs simply use gparted to remove grub since you got grub backed up from step 1.
3) Restore mbr from your back-up using dd from a live cd and then add the boot entries for accessing win 7. Pls make sure you do the win 7 initial updates before you you do the mbr restore or in 99 out of 100 cases win 7 will think you have changed hardware and complain.
4) Once all is fine I would recommend doing another dd to save the completed mbr in case everything fails at some time in the future.

First, my wife has decided she WILL install Linux first and will NOT purchase Windows7 for another month or two. I do NOT want to push her to change her view on that, as she could then change her mind and decide not to install Linux at all.

So its a given, Linux WILL be installed first.

Install of win (any version) secondly is not normal due to M$ unplanning, but is not impossible, just pay attention to any attempt to restructure the hdd that win 7 installer may suggest. Normally, It will offer two alternatives, wipe disk & install (default), Install to existing leaving other partitions alone. So
I concur … don’t rattle her chain.

Next, she also wants to install WinXP in a Virtual Boxsession on Linux. After installing that Virtual WinXP session she does NOT want to lose Linux as that will lose the WinXP Virtual Box session (as she will spend dozens of hours tuning winXP in Virtual Box).

I prefer NOT to have to put that Virtual Box session in an exotic location to hide it from Win7 (although that Virtual Session backup ‘may’ be my only alternative).

Hence if at all possible, I want to install Windows7 AFTER openSUSE is installed, and I do NOT want to lose openSUSE.

The method I described earlier will satisfy this situation. Just keep a copy of mbr so linux access can be restored if win 7 needs to be fixed at some point.

I note Ubuntu users who claim they installed win7 AFTER installing Ubuntu and it worked: “How to” Dual boot Ubuntu and Windows 7 (Ubuntu installed first)](“How to” Dual boot Ubuntu and Windows 7 (Ubuntu installed first)) … Plus there are guides for restoring Ubuntu’s boot manager (for legacy grub) after installing Windows7: Restore legacy grub after Win7 install

I can’t believe Windows7 would treat Ubuntu different from openSUSE, hence it makes me think this IS possible.

Now while many Ubuntu user’s on the “How to” Dual boot Ubuntu and Windows 7 (Ubuntu installed first) thread](“How to” Dual boot Ubuntu and Windows 7 (Ubuntu installed first)) had problems, when I study their posts I see they made mistakes in their install, or they made mistakes in their restoration of grub.

Supposedly, Win 7 can install to any valid partition of any drive but then you run into the contradiction on the M$ site that says Win 7 will not allow even other M$ OS’s to reside on the hdd’s. I have clients that have win 7 win XP Mint Mandriva and openSUSE all living happily on a single hdd but it took some lengthy work arounds to get win 7 to not complain.

36

I don’t have an ASUS motherboard but I’ve run IDE and SATA drives on these motherboards for while before I went completely SATA. Now I’m running SATA and SCSI on the same motherboard. And the other PC is running SATA and IDE HDDs.
I have 2 problems with the SCSI, the SCSI controller doesn’t work with Windows 7 and either that one SCSI drive is defective or I haven’t terminated SCSI correctly.

On the second PC, no problems running with both IDE and SATA HDDs. The IDE to SATA converters should work but I’d just put the IDE in the PC first to see if it works then buy the converters, though its a nice SATA cable vs IDE ribbon cable. If her DVD/CDROM is IDE then the choice is simple.

If she ordered the ASUS P7H55 motherboard then the GeForce G210 is inferior to the onboard Intel Graphic although the GeForce drivers will work much better with OpenSuse than Intel. The GF G210 is about the same as a GF Ti-4600. old but with Dx9 support.

In my experience, Windows 7 shouldn’t need to be reinstalled several times. I use Seagate DiscWizard to clone drives and partitions from one drive to the next. However, the Ubuntu methods described for installing Windows 7 and then reinstalling Grub should be fine for installing Windows 7 after installing OpenSuse.

I’m closer to the original partitioning than the 2 alternatives you proposed for the 1 500Gb. I have 122Gb for a Windows 7 C: drive and 495Gb for a Windows 7 D: drive. I have a “Program Files” on both Windows drives and try to install as many programs as I can to “D\Program Files” for the same reason we have a separate /home partition.

Your wife should be more concerned about losing her Windows XP on the Virtual box than losing it because she installed Windows 7. I’ve lost more Windows XP virtual machines under OpenSuSe 11.1 XEN’s Virtual Box that had nothing to do with dual booting Windows 7. Even more worrysome that she intends to have a 40Gb virtual machine. I don’t think she has an option other than to make backups from the virtual Windows XP onto OpenSusE storage via Samba.

For the record, I’m a first partition for Windows follower as well. Even if I have to set the BIOS to boot the 2nd HDD (/dev/sdb) instead of the 1st HDD.

37

Thats a good idea. Hopefully if it does not work, we do not then find the local PC shop is then out of stock of the adapters (they have the adapters in stock now). I’m tempted to buy the adapter anyway, because we have many old PCs with large IDE drives.

The G210 is inferior for MS-windows but because of the Intel Linux driver inadequacy and superior Linux nvidia drivers it is not inferior for Linux. Hence I believe it is worth while installing the G210.

The GF G210 has more than just Dx9. It has VDPAU which for us is VERY important. This provides excellent HD playback that the GF Ti-4600 to the best of my knowledge does not provide. For our family, where we take lots of videos, that makes a world of difference. We would never consider a GF Ti-4600.

We have WinXP in a Virtual Session on many PCs in our house and other than the very first time I installed Virtual Box on a PC (and then updated openSUSE) we have yet to lose a winXP virtual session. While a pain (due to file size of the Virtual session) they can be backed up, and we do so. Hence we simply do not lose them.

It reads like you don’t backup your virtual sessions when they are functional and initially tuned.

Anyway, now that she knows the ASUS P7H55 motherboard motherboard supports WinXP, and Win7, and is compatible with Linux (evidence = Express Gate + accounts of Fedora and Ubuntu users) and she now believes she can use her old 500 GB drive she is now thinking of this configuration, where sda=new SATA and sdb=old-IDE-possibly-with-SATA-adapter :

  • sda1 = Primary 100 GB winXP (NTFS)
  • sda2 = Primary 200 GB data (NTFS - also reserved for win7’s 2 partitions to be installed later)
  • sda4 = Extended (200 GB)
  • sda5 = 2 GB Logical in the extended - swap
  • sda6 = 25 GB Logical in the extended - / (for openSUSE)
  • sda7 = 173 GB Logical in the extended - /home (for openSUSE - this may also have winXP virtual box, space likely closer to 160 GB as this is remaining space after other partitions)

and

  • sdb1 = 500 GB NTFS data partition

I have yet to try to convince her to consider installing Linux on sdb. The reason is if I suggest Linux to go on sdb, she may change her mind about using sdb and if she had decided previous to put Linux on sdb then she would also likely to decide to dump Linux with the removal of sdb. I know that makes no sense to you and me, but I suspect it would make perfect sense to her.

38

Please take no offense from my comments, they’re intended for polite discussion and constructive criticism.

Noted about the Intel vs. nVidia graphics support, especially when it’s only another $17 euros? I’m more try the Intel first then install the GF G210 if necessary.

Yes, I never backed up my Windows XP VirtualBox PCs, mostly those were for testing Windows programs and were only 8Gb max. Now I’ve got lots of room and some older PCs to run Windows XP and Windows 98SE.

39

I’m not sure about the sda1 - Windows XP primary, sda2 - Windows 7 primary partitioning.

IMHO:

  • sda1 = Primary 200 GB Windows 7 (NTFS)
  • sda2 = Extended (300 GB)
  • sda3 = 2 GB Logical in the extended - swap
  • sda4 = 25 GB Logical in the extended - / (for openSUSE)
  • sda5 = 173 GB Logical in the extended - /home (for openSUSE - this may also have winXP virtual box, space likely closer to 160 GB as this is remaining space after other partitions)
  • sda6 = 100 GB ext4 for WinXP virtual box

and

  • sdb1 = Primary 100 GB data Windows XP SP3 (NTFS)
  • sdb2 = 400 GB allocated partition ext4 - for storage (this can always be deleted and formatted as NTFS if necessary)
40

Your comments and interest are most appeciated.

I’ll leave this decision up to my wife. I do have major concerns about the Intel graphic driver and I also feel more comfortable with the nVidia proprietary Linux driver (and the nVidia VDPAU is VERY good for HD video playback) but we will see. Its also likely her Core i7 is so fast that VDPAU adds nothing extra.