Maybe openSUSE needs something like Ubuntu's app center

[TaraIkeda]

Well what about a change to openSUSE's software download page, would that be a more popular idea for you guys?
The issue I see with the software download section of openSUSE, is that it is very disorganized and for me it doesnt direct for the version of openSUSE I use.
I mean look at the craziness you get when searching for firefox:
Software.openSUSE.org

46 pages, I mean thats crazy!
10 pages if you actually select the version you have, thats still crazy.
I find Ubuntu's software site more organized, as when you choose the version you have it narrows down the results.
Heck even when you dont filter the results are far more helpful:
Ubuntu -- Package Search Results -- firefox

Even though you get some scrolling to do with filtering off the results are still not as chaotic

[hcvv]

Originally Posted by TaraIkeda

Well what about a change to openSUSE's software download page, would that be a more popular idea for you guys?
The issue I see with the software download section of openSUSE, is that it is very disorganized and for me it doesnt direct for the version of openSUSE I use.
I mean look at the craziness you get when searching for firefox:
Software.openSUSE.org

46 pages, I mean thats crazy!
10 pages if you actually select the version you have, thats still crazy.
I find Ubuntu's software site more organized, as when you choose the version you have it narrows down the results.
Heck even when you dont filter the results are far more helpful:
Ubuntu -- Package Search Results -- firefox

Even though you get some scrolling to do with filtering off the results are still not as chaotic

When I was a beginner in openSUSE, my experienc most probably would be:
1) find that FF is installed by default.
2) I would search FF with YaST > Software > Software Management and see that it is there to be installed/removed/upgraded.
3) when i got a bit more sophisticated and I would like to go adventurous, I would maybe use Webpin for serching, but I would ALWAYS mention the level of my openSUSE.

And do I understand correctly that you want those 10 'pages' see presented to you as one big page like the Ubuntu one you showed? The Ubuntu one has 256 entries in one big lump of endless scrolling. Personal taste who likes what.

[TaraIkeda]

Originally Posted by hcvv

When I was a beginner in openSUSE, my experienc most probably would be:
1) find that FF is installed by default.

I was using firefox as an example

2) I would search FF with YaST > Software > Software Management and see that it is there to be installed/removed/upgraded.

Yes but there are people who are used to the "windows way" of things, Ubuntu's software site can be a helpful starting point

3) when i got a bit more sophisticated and I would like to go adventurous, I would maybe use Webpin for serching, but I would ALWAYS mention the level of my openSUSE.

Now this is something I did not know about,maybe we could suggest this to new users.

And do I understand correctly that you want those 10 'pages' see presented to you as one big page like the Ubuntu one you showed? The Ubuntu one has 256 entries in one big lump of endless scrolling. Personal taste who likes what.

Nono, I just think the ubuntu download page is more organized and it does narrow down results far more then Software.openSUSE.org
When you search out say thunderbird for karmic it gives you both the exact hit and extra results but usually the exact hits are indeed exact hits related to what you need
Ubuntu -- Package Search Results -- thunderbird

Try the same with http://software.opensuse.org/search:
Software.openSUSE.org

It does not filter out most relevant and you have to dig to get the actual thunderbird package

New users might have heard of openSUSE's one click install feature, and might go to Software.openSUSE.org for their desired software and are off put vby how many package options crop up with no filtering.

[Jonathan_R]

Originally Posted by TaraIkeda

I was using firefox as an example



Yes but there are people who are used to the "windows way" of things, Ubuntu's software site can be a helpful starting point



Now this is something I did not know about,maybe we could suggest this to new users.



Nono, I just think the ubuntu download page is more organized and it does narrow down results far more then Software.openSUSE.org
When you search out say thunderbird for karmic it gives you both the exact hit and extra results but usually the exact hits are indeed exact hits related to what you need
Ubuntu -- Package Search Results -- thunderbird

Try the same with http://software.opensuse.org/search:
Software.openSUSE.org

It does not filter out most relevant and you have to dig to get the actual thunderbird package

New users might have heard of openSUSE's one click install feature, and might go to Software.openSUSE.org for their desired software and are off put vby how many package options crop up with no filtering.

Look, YaST beats Windows Software Control Center in many ways. This was said by my Windows friends. Windows Software center can not have repositories added like can be done in most distros. If you're trying to make Linux into a Windows look a like, please stop.

The bottom line is, whenever you make a change, say to Mac or to Linux, then you need to take time to learn to do it their way. You keep trying to take a way that change. If you take that away, you also take away the reason for the change.

There may be a way for you to accomplish what you'd want, but then again, the user would have to know about it, find it, and install it. It's a YaST theme. Yes, YaST actually has a couple of themes.

I take it you haven't seen the new portal yet. Portal New - openSUSE The software in there is more organized. It's incomplete right now, but then what do you expect from a beta.

You seem to think users would be put off by the way YaST does things, and by the way the openSUSE-Software Search site does things. Did it occur to you that maybe some users would appreciate it, discovering new software they would not have.

What I don't understand is, if you like openSUSE so much, and you left Ubuntu (who knows, maybe you do both), why do you keep trying to change openSUSE into Ubuntu? If any of us went over to the Ubuntu forums and suggested the same, we be marked as trolls, and banned. (I do have an Ubuntu account).

[TaraIkeda]

Originally Posted by Jonathan_R

Look, YaST beats Windows Software Control Center in many ways. This was said by my Windows friends. Windows Software center can not have repositories added like can be done in most distros. If you're trying to make Linux into a Windows look a like, please stop.

The bottom line is, whenever you make a change, say to Mac or to Linux, then you need to take time to learn to do it their way. You keep trying to take a way that change. If you take that away, you also take away the reason for the change.

There may be a way for you to accomplish what you'd want, but then again, the user would have to know about it, find it, and install it. It's a YaST theme. Yes, YaST actually has a couple of themes.

I take it you haven't seen the new portal yet. Portal New - openSUSE The software in there is more organized. It's incomplete right now, but then what do you expect from a beta.

You seem to think users would be put off by the way YaST does things, and by the way the openSUSE-Software Search site does things. Did it occur to you that maybe some users would appreciate it, discovering new software they would not have.

What I don't understand is, if you like openSUSE so much, and you left Ubuntu (who knows, maybe you do both), why do you keep trying to change openSUSE into Ubuntu? If any of us went over to the Ubuntu forums and suggested the same, we be marked as trolls, and banned. (I do have an Ubuntu account).

Oh I wasn't suggesting make openSUSE exactly like Windows or ubuntu, where the hell did I say that?
I was just suggesting that maybe we could have a more simplistic installer for new users thats all.
Maybe if you actually READ what I suggested then you see i was just suggesting that maybe we could provide something simplistic to work with for new users thats all.
But no I guess I should have mentioned the word Ubuntu here, I know the hate some of you guys have for it so its easy to shrug off any ideas related to it.
Look i saw something I thought might be helpful to new users thats all
And by the way I did suggest something like YAST for Ubuntu and I was not banned for it.
Serves me right for having an idea I guess...
And i do use both Ubuntu and openSUSE, forgot for some people thats a crime

[Jonathan_R]

Whoa there. I think you should cool down a bit.

While you haven't come out and directly said it, it has been said several times that the consensus does not like what you propose, yet you keep pushing it, so therefore it is implied that you do want openSUSE to be more like Ubuntu or Windows.

Secondly, name calling is against forum rules. If you can not post with out name calling and loosing your temper, then come back later and post when you are more in control of your emotions.

I have read this thread, and have posted several times in it. I have followed it from the first post. I don't find it a crime or even a bad thing to use more than one distro. I think it enhances a users understanding of Linux. I myself have used many distros, probably more than you are aware of.

See, it's not about Ubuntu. You make the mistake that this is about Ubuntu. It's not because you mentioned or even use Ubuntu. There is a difference between suggesting something, and then pushing it beyond a suggestion. What you have done is first off, put the suggestion in the wrong place. Secondly, you have pushed it beyond a suggestion. What you don't understand is that the new portal was kind of borrowed from the Ubuntu portal. We are not opposed to borrowing concepts and ideas from Ubuntu or other distros, but not every idea or suggestion is going to work.

Just because you saw something that would be helpful to new users doesn't mean the consensus will agree with you. It's at that point you need to learn to be a good sport and drop it. Or better, ask why. What is considered usability. But you haven't done any of those. Instead you persist on your idea.

I understand what it's like when your idea is rejected. It's like rejecting you, which explains the hot tempered post. Still, it's not about you, or Ubuntu, or anything like that. There are so much that you do not understand about YaST and zypper or webpin, and before suggesting changes like that, you need to do some research and find out what is considered usability. Subscribing to the yast mailing list and chatting with the devs on irc #yast would be a good idea. I have proposed that you code it yourself. More than likely, that's the same response you'd get from the devs.

If you think this is brutal, asking this on the yast mailing list....well get out your flame retardant pants and other flame retardant gear.

[CloudLion_ca]

Personally... I don't care how bad SuSE is: Ubuntu will forever be worse!!!!

Any real SuSE fanatic can tell you the truth!

Ubuntu was spawned from bacteria that feeds on the regurgitated spews; that spew from pygmy demons who recklessly frolicked in highly carbonated and hydrogenated hot springs. Someone should take out a Fedora and beat some sense into those silly demons. Please note I didn't say: Pygmy Devils... someone from the BSD community might read this and "no" I'm not getting out of line! YaST still rules!!!

[Sagemta]

Geez! some of you guys are.. are... well I don't want to get banned. Just sit for a bit take 3 breaths in,out,in,out,in,out.
Now @Tarakelda in post 12 I made the suggestion of a website like the OSC. Jon has pointed out the new portal coming up, now no item in it is set in concrete there. You are a member of this community perhaps,you could write the page you envision. Rightly or wrongly I'm thinking from what you wrote in post 31 you may have an idea of how to & what to write for this page.
Personally,I think you've got something here,unfortunately you have some here who have the wrong idea & will need to see it.So I encourage you to write up a page along the lines I suggested in post 12. The reason I say this is because Yast is Suse's main selling point. While not like the App center you proposed a page to intro new users to Yast using a list of Frequently Picked Apps,this would be definite plus.
Well, Tara what do you think of an FPA page? That would also introduce new users to Yast?

[chief_sealth]

TaraIkeda, there used to be flames in the GIMP mailing list started by people who thought GIMP should be "more like Photoshop." Essentially, they were telling the developers and other users that they were doing things wrong, and they should mimic Adobe. These were mainly Photoshop users who didn't want to learn a different way of doing things. But guess what? GIMP is not Photoshop! When you're in an openSUSE forum, suggesting that one of its strongest features be made more like Ubuntu, expect a little criticism.

Any new system is going to have a learning curve. You can take the Windows approach, which Ubuntu seems to mimic, and cater to the lowest common denominator. Or you can build a solid, stable system and let people judge by its merits and make a choice. I've known Ubuntu users who've never used the CLI and don't even know where to find it. If that works for them, great, but it seems that they would lose a lot of functionality that way. The more you "dumb down," the more you lose in the way of function and power.

[69_rs_ss]

chief sealth wrote:
> TaraIkeda, there used to be flames in the GIMP mailing list started by
> people who thought GIMP should be "more like Photoshop." Essentially,
> they were telling the developers and other users that they were doing
> things wrong, and they should mimic Adobe. These were mainly Photoshop
> users who didn't want to learn a different way of doing things. But
> guess what? GIMP is not Photoshop! When you're in an openSUSE forum,
> suggesting that one of its strongest features be made more like Ubuntu,
> expect a little criticism.
>
Hmmm....Then why was GIMPShop created? That's right, to answer the call
of those users that wanted GIMP to be more photoshop-like.

> Any new system is going to have a learning curve. You can take the
> Windows approach, which Ubuntu seems to mimic, and cater to the lowest
> common denominator. Or you can build a solid, stable system and let
> people judge by its merits and make a choice. I've known Ubuntu users
> who've never used the CLI and don't even know where to find it. If that
> works for them, great, but it seems that they would lose a lot of
> functionality that way. The more you "dumb down," the more you lose in
> the way of function and power.
>
>
And some times you just want something to work and don't need all the
functionality and power. All depends on the task and the tool mixed with
the person and their needs.