What makes Linux better than Win/Mac?

[microchip8]

Originally Posted by CloudLion_ca

I'm a PC --- I dominate 95% of the personal computers in the industrialized world. World conquest is my second hobby after wrestling virtual black holes. My following enjoy all the benefits and draw backs of being one with that which is near omnipotent. I will not be moved lightly from Mount Olympus. There are no threats to my dominate position. I need not be perfect. I just need to run... World of Warcraft and other cool games. Oh... I forgot I have productivity software and everything else; but I really do have cool games.

I'm a Mac --- I have cool TV commercials, my corporate figure head has assumed deity status, my followers buy more fruit than they eat. I'm better than everyone because people pay more to realize that they "are" superior to 95% of
their peers in the industrialized world. I can also run World of Warcraft; but not as well as a PC. I have some productivity software. I have Adobe software. I have World of Warcraft.

I'm a Linux box --- I'm sort of working on all the hardware that is too old to work with OS X and Windows XP. My followers range from pizza eaters and beer drinkers to people who done scholarly robes and who are, or eventually will be, paid to professionally look down on the rest the industrialized world. 60% of my following never end in wanting to be able to run "cool" video games. I can't run World of Warcraft. Most of my stuff is free.

You do realize that both PC and Mac are one and the same thing since Apple dropped PowerPC? There's nothing more that distinguishes a PC from a Mac under the hood. A Mac is just a custom type of PC sold by Apple

PS: you can very well run WoW under wine

[ken_yap]

Originally Posted by microchip8

You do realize that both PC and Mac are one and the same thing since Apple dropped PowerPC?

Since Apple dropped PPC support, we got a couple of G5s that were no longer useful as desktops, so they got repurposed as servers. Heck of an expensive way to get a server, since I think they cost as much as a rack-mount server originally, but might as well put them to use. The oh-so-cute soft eject for the DVD drive drove me to swear at Apple many times during the Linux install.

To borrow from the beer ad, Linux covers the hardware that other OSes can't.

[microchip8]

Originally Posted by ken_yap

Since Apple dropped PPC support, we got a couple of G5s that were no longer useful as desktops, so they got repurposed as servers. Heck of an expensive way to get a server, since I think they cost as much as a rack-mount server originally, but might as well put them to use. The oh-so-cute soft eject for the DVD drive drove me to swear at Apple many times during the Linux install.

To borrow from the beer ad, Linux covers the hardware that other OSes can't.

Definitely, the G5s could still be put to good use and yes they were pretty much very expensive at that time. I used to have a dual G4 @ 450 MHz and a single G4 @ 867 MHz (I think?). Very shiny and all but drove me nuts as they were as loud as a vacuum cleaner

[hendersj]

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:56:02 +0000, CloudLion ca wrote:

> hendersj;2009599 DID NOT write:
>> All the things I *could* say in response to this are probably best left
>> unsaid, at least in public.
>> You want to help Linux? Stop making us look bad.

> hendersj;2009599 wrote:
>> All the things I *could* say in response to this are probably best left
>> unsaid, at least in public.
> [...]
>> You want to help Linux? Stop making us look bad.

Dude, if you're going to quote different sections of a message, do so
clearly rather than taking to different parts of the message and pasting
them together to make it look like the person you're quoting said
something they didn't.

If that wasn't intentional, then that's fine. But if it *was*
intentional, then that's not cool at all and you need to knock it off.

As for the rest of what you wrote, it's not particularly relevant to what
I actually did say. <shrug>

Jim

[CloudLion_ca]

Originally Posted by microchip8

You do realize that both PC and Mac are one and the same thing since Apple dropped PowerPC? There's nothing more that distinguishes a PC from a Mac under the hood. A Mac is just a custom type of PC sold by Apple

PS: you can very well run WoW under wine

I can't get WotLK to run reasonably in wine, crossover, or winex. It runs fine in XP and OS X. I hate Blizzard.

I also know we can run OS X 10.5 on HP desktop computers and notebooks; assuming you know what to buy. Bah... if I have to admit one thing: automatic spelling error correction in MS. Word really bites. I really should re-read stuff before I copy and paste. I wish my boss would let me install OpenOffice.

The price literacy pays through progress.

Oh well. NEXT!!!

[CloudLion_ca]

Originally Posted by hendersj

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:56:02 +0000, CloudLion ca wrote:
[color=blue]
If that wasn't intentional, then that's fine. But if it *was*
intentional, then that's not cool at all and you need to knock it off.

As for the rest of what you wrote, it's not particularly relevant to what
I actually did say. <shrug>

Jim

Hey Jim... I'm certainly not going to take myself too seriously in any Internet posting. I intended no offense.

The sandbox is suppose to be big enough for everyone to throw dirt and toys at each other.

Fun is fun.

[hendersj]

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 00:16:01 +0000, CloudLion ca wrote:

> I intended no offense.

Then, in the words of Stephen Colbert, "I accept your apology". :-)

Jim

[CloudLion_ca]

Originally Posted by hendersj

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 00:16:01 +0000, CloudLion ca wrote:

> I intended no offense.

Then, in the words of Stephen Colbert, "I accept your apology". :-)

Jim

Does this mean we both have to kiss up to the chick with the rocket launcher?

I don't see any smiley faces with flak jackets.

[cjcox]

petegnj wrote:
> Linux -may be better- for you but for a desktop OS is not better than
> Windows or Mac. Since the late 90s I've been waiting for Linux to take
> the desktop. It hasn't yet and I wouldn't hold my breath that it will.
> You have Win7 due out in a few months that will dominate the new
> netbooks and Chrome OS out in 1010 that will try to win over the netbook
> and, to some extent, the desktop market. Linux is a great workhorse OS
> that excels on the server platform. It should have been a shoe in for
> the netbooks when they emerged but weren't, as I expected.

My wife (non technical) uses Linux as her OS. Nuff said.

You have to look at things differently. It's a lot like Mac vs Windows. A Windows person will get frustrated by Mac for example because all of their
Windows toys are NOT available there. It's also true (but to a lesser extent) for a Mac person moving to Windows.

People want Linux === Windows.... not going to happen.

Linux distros != Windows

It's different. With that said, I can list hundreds (if not thousands) of things I can do with "Linux" that would be difficult if not impossible to
do with Windows. YMMV of course. I come from the *ix world. I was NOT raised on Windows. In fact the only reason I bought a Wintel box was to run
"Linux". I used Amiga OS prior to that... which of course... is also NOT Windows.

I do boot Windows occasionally, but mainly to troubleshoot issues. I see no need to run Windows. But I really never did. However, I can see a long
time Windows user being frustrated with "Linux" (or other).

Actually, "Linux" works very well on netbooks. I did the page for the HP2140, openSUSE ran quite well. Very complete.

Problems with netbooks:

1. People expect them to cost <$200USD

2. People expect them to be fairly powerful notebooks (not very powerful, but powerful enough for HD, for example).

3. People expect them to weight almost nothing and have huge battery life span.

4. People expect them to have screens with >600 pixels vertical.



Some reality:

1. Low end cost came out about $299USD.

2. Not really powerful enough for HD, limited to 2G ram, 32bit.

3. 3cell batteries have VERY short lifetimes.

4. Screens are a very expensive part of the unit. And higher resolution requires even more horsepower in addition to cost.




Netbooks, the 2nd try:

1. People are dumb enough to buy netbooks that cost the same as their real/powerful notebooks. So no longer an issue. Most netbook configs, by time
people walk out are $350-400USD.

2. HD is possible with add on accelerators and certain chipsets.... even 1080p. Windows NEEDS more memory. Since cost is not an issue (see #1), new
netbooks have much more ram (2G) and huge disks (bye bye SSD).

3. With some creativity, 6cell batteries can be put in without adversely affecting size... weight however suffers.

4. Haven't really seen too many good answers to this one except, again, for the magic #1 price issue.



Reality round 2:

1. A lot of the smaller footprint netbooks were returned. While "Linux" does ok, Windows DOES NOT. We're already seeing some of those first gen
expensive netbooks for sale, refurbed, for $99 (yes... $99!!!). Certainly good news for "Linux" folks.

2. HD even with some of the accelerators is still a bit choppy... esp. at 1080p (not that I care).

3. 6cell "Linux" can last a VERY long time.

4. "Linux" seems to handle external monitors better than the Windows based netbooks (from my own testing).



So... what can you say? The world wants EXPENSIVE SLOW CHEAP-QUALITY SHORT WARRANTY WINDOWS boxes. Not really sure why.

The wise many buys a 12" laptop with a real processor, excellent batter life, fantastic performance, etc. Especially true since Windows forces the
netbook to become very expensive. Again, YMMV. Just moving to a 14" high res screen cuts the price more than half and gets things to the $500USD
range (for a REAL laptop).

My 12" laptop has a DVDRW, can play 1080p full HD, has a real 64bit dual core processor, can do large scale virtualization, can have 8G of ram, etc.
Granted, it's top of the line and costs about 3x the normal netbook. But mine will last 3x longer and provide me with 3x more satisfaction. Seems
that just simple browsing and email users are centering around mobile phone devices anyhow.

But as more of the $99USD deals come around, I might pick a netbook up just for show and tell...

AND... with all of that said, I'm a MINORITY. Again, the world wants netbooks right now (but IMHO, they have NO idea why... just more inexpensive
high end refurbs for the future).

[cjcox]

Chrysantine wrote:
....
> cjcox;2009620 Wrote:
>> I'm a SysAdmin... so "no", we usually find solutions instead of
>> "waiting".
> Oh come on.. you know just as well as I do that people on Windows and
> Mac also *fix* issues.

Well, again, I said SysAdmin.. that means I do have to do Windows. So I vehemently disagree. All of the KB articles in the world don't fully explain
the bizarre innards of Windows. In Windows you shrug your shoulders, throw a dart at the poster of Bill Gates on your wall, send out a depressing
email and move on. I'm sorry, but it's not even close to being true with regards to flexibility in getting around issues. Not close at all.

Mac may be a lot different. I need more Mac experience to make any decision on that one. Their user base seems more high level than Windows... maybe
they're a bunch of techies and I just never noticed (?).

Many of my MCSE friends are now doing more and more "Linux". They like the flexibility and troubleshooting ease. Not many mysteries there...

>
> If you find a bug in Bind, will you - as a sysadmin - fix it yourself?

I would, but I also have extensive background as a programmer (and I'm a member of the ISC.. which helps a bit).


There are TONS of bugs in Microsoft's DNS implementation (by design)... and they've been there for YEARS. Who cares if a user can or cannot fix
them... why doesn't Microsoft fix it??? Another dart into the nose of BG.

> Unlikely - because you don't know the project well enough to start
> patching something in it just out of the blue so essentially you're left
> with "will someone release a patch for it?" - so the best result you're
> realistically left is that you will try to mitigate the issue, just as
> people on Windows and Mac do.

I have made many of my own hacks/patches to work around issues until the official patch comes out. It's not that unusual. I do share my patches when
I make them (but that's not terribly often anymore).

>
> Linux has _many_ benefits but trying to demonise other systems will NOT
> win you friends nor will it result in good PR for Linux.

There is NO need to "demonise" Windows (for example). It has a deservedly bad reputation amongst even it's oldest users. I didn't have to do
anything there (not that my word would matter anyhow).

I do evangelize "Linux" by demo and show and tell. I also moonlight from time to time as a "Linux" prof at the local college. No, I make most of my
sales by showing how infinitely better "Linux" is... not by bashing Windows. And I certainly didn't intend to turn this into a bashing session, it
WAS the Windows/Mac fanboys that tried to "demonise" "Linux". I just wanted to set the record straight.

Let's just say I know of NO *ix admins that are abandoning "Linux" to move to Windows. But I know tons going the other way. Me, I have to know just
about all of them..... well, not Mac really. We don't have any demand for Mac (different world).