What makes Linux better than Win/Mac?

[cjcox]

On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 00:16 +0000, monoRhesus wrote:
....
>
> My girlfriend, a Mac lover, asks me all the time. She is puzzled to see
> me spend hours and hours in front of my laptop, suffering to compile
> stuff, dealing with drivers, simple (but powerful) applications, etc. So
> she asks. Why linux? And every time I try to explain why, I end up
> babbling a series of reasons such as well, it's free, no virus, and the
> like. She usually just stares at me and walks away.

In general, you don't HAVE to spend hours, etc. you could do what all
Mac users HAVE to do and PUNT unless a piece of hardware specifically
supports Mac.

However, Mac is its own WORLD. Thus, it defines what you can/cannot do
with it and for the most part, people have no interest in leaving the
Mac planet to explore the universe... and that's fine. It's self
contained and is what it is... and for most, that's all they will ever
need.

>
> I know Linux is better, and I could argue well, it is more modular and
> therefore each application or process is light and does its job right;
> or because it is community driven it usually has all the main features
> that users could need, and so on. But I always feel like there is a
> really good answer out there that's slipping out of my mind. And then I
> think well, maybe it is like all truths: you don't get it till you get
> it.

Linux is for people that want something that is free (Mac is NOT free).

Linux is for people that need something to flex with them and allow them
to move freely into new worlds.

Linux is for people that have the ability to fix problems instead of
just getting frustrated with bugs.

>
> This ain't a great conclusion. I am not googling this because I'd like
> the community to tell me: What do people here answer to their aunts,
> brothers, grandmothers, wifes, husbands etc when they ask 'why linux'?

Why Linux? Linux is free. Windows and Mac are NOT free.

(Linux, meaning enviromnents built around the Linux kernel)

[Chrysantine]

Originally Posted by cjcox

Linux is for people that have the ability to fix problems instead of just getting frustrated with bugs.

With no disrespect intended, how many people here actually are able to fix bugs in the software? A handful at best.

Most of them are just waiting for "fixes" just as on other platforms.

[ken_yap]

Well, if you read that in a wider sense, it could mean more than just software bugs but problems in general.

With closed source programs you don't know what's going on, you have to wait for the developer to provide a fix.

With open source, you don't necessarily have to read the source. Sometimes, with the help of the community, you can reach a workaround, or find another approach to solve the problem. Problem in a wider sense, as in something you want to get done, with any suitable tool.

It's just that open source people are more likely to be self-motivated tinkerers.

[CloudLion_ca]

Originally Posted by Chrysantine

With no disrespect intended, how many people here actually are able to fix bugs in the software? A handful at best.

Most of them are just waiting for "fixes" just as on other platforms.

I'd hazzard a guess that there are a large number of people here who can step, break point, watch, and then profile code. Break dancing with a keyboard. Wooo Whooooo!!!! Shake it!!!

I'll feel insulted for everyone else here who... just wants OpenSuSE to "just work" so they can pirate music, watch questionable videos and content, "not" play cool video games, and skip buying: An Expert Guide to Microsoft Office for Dummies in 21 Months.

As much as I like to buy copies of: An Expert Guide to Microsoft Office for Dummies in 21 Months.

[hendersj]

All the things I *could* say in response to this are probably best left
unsaid, at least in public.

I stand by what I said before - it's people who say "Linux people are
better/superior people" who make us (as a community) sound like we're
exclusionary and have a superiority complex. That doesn't help the
community, nor does it help the perception of Linux or Linux users.

I for one wish the element of the community that does that would just
knock it off. It doesn't generate good PR, it confirms the perceptions
of those who think that Linux users are a bunch of snobs, and that's bad
PR. You want to help Linux? Stop making us look bad.

Jim

[cjcox]

On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 16:16 +0000, Chrysantine wrote:
> cjcox;2008893 Wrote:
> > Linux is for people that have the ability to fix problems instead of
> > just getting frustrated with bugs.
> With no disrespect intended, how many people here actually are able to
> fix bugs in the software? A handful at best.

True. But with Windows/Mac, it's usually not even an option. And...
sometimse you don't need to know too much to just be able to workaround
an issue. The "blacker" the box, the less likely people can workaround
issues.

>
> Most of them are just waiting for "fixes" just as on other platforms.

I'm a SysAdmin... so "no", we usually find solutions instead of
"waiting". But you're right. Linux isn't for the lazy or stupid....
it's for people that are responsible members of the computing and
Internet community ... we are a dying breed.

[petegnj]

Linux may be better for you but for a desktop OS is not better than Windows or Mac. Since the late 90s I've been waiting for Linux to take the desktop. It hasn't yet and I wouldn't hold my breath that it will. You have Win7 due out in a few months that will dominate the new netbooks and Chrome OS out in 1010 that will try to win over the netbook and, to some extent, the desktop market. Linux is a great workhorse OS that excels on the server platform. It should have been a shoe in for the netbooks when they emerged but weren't, as I expected.

[Chrysantine]

Originally Posted by cjcox

True. But with Windows/Mac, it's usually not even an option.

Yes.. and no. It all depends on the program you're using - for example I use DarwinPorts a lot, which means I'm using open source software that I can edit myself just as you can on Linux.

If I really wanted to, I could also poke at Darwin but I don't really want or need to.

Yes, many programs I don't have the source code for so I'm left with dealing with issues to my best ability.

Originally Posted by cjcox

I'm a SysAdmin... so "no", we usually find solutions instead of "waiting".

Oh come on.. you know just as well as I do that people on Windows and Mac also *fix* issues.

If you find a bug in Bind, will you - as a sysadmin - fix it yourself? Unlikely - because you don't know the project well enough to start patching something in it just out of the blue so essentially you're left with "will someone release a patch for it?" - so the best result you're realistically left is that you will try to mitigate the issue, just as people on Windows and Mac do.

Linux has _many_ benefits but trying to demonise other systems will NOT win you friends nor will it result in good PR for Linux.

[hendersj]

On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:26:02 +0000, petegnj wrote:

> Since the late 90s I've been waiting for Linux to take the desktop. It
> hasn't yet and I wouldn't hold my breath that it will.

Well, as I've said before, only been using it on the desktop every day
for the last 10-12 years or so, seems to do very well for what I need it
for. It has improved over the years, I spend *much* less time tinkering
with building things myself - and only do so because I'm curious,
generally not because I have to.

> Linux is a great workhorse OS that excels on the
> server platform. It should have been a shoe in for the netbooks when
> they emerged but weren't, as I expected.

Well, it seems there was some anti-competitive behaviour from one of "the
giants" that put a stop to that, or at least slowed it down.

Jim

[CloudLion_ca]

Originally Posted by hendersj

All the things I *could* say in response to this are probably best left
unsaid, at least in public.
You want to help Linux? Stop making us look bad.

Jim

I'm a PC --- I dominate 95% of the personal computers in the industrialized world. World conquest is my second hobby after wrestling virtual black holes. My following enjoy all the benefits and draw backs of being one with that which is near omnipotent. I will not be moved lightly from Mount Olympus. There are no threats to my dominate position. I need not be perfect. I just need to run... World of Warcraft and other cool games. Oh... I forgot I have productivity software and everything else; but I really do have cool games.

I'm a Mac --- I have cool TV commercials, my corporate figure head has assumed deity status, my followers buy more fruit than they eat. I'm better than everyone because people pay more to realize that they "are" superior to 95% of
their peers in the industrialized world. I can also run World of Warcraft; but not as well as a PC. I have some productivity software. I have Adobe software. I have World of Warcraft.

I'm a Linux box --- I'm sort of working on all the hardware that is too old to work with OS X and Windows XP. My followers range from pizza eaters and beer drinkers to people who done scholarly robes and who are, or eventually will be, paid to professionally look down on the rest the industrialized world. 60% of my following never end in wanting to be able to run "cool" video games. I can't run World of Warcraft. Most of my stuff is free.

The fact is the Personal Computer market is a crock of Capitalist exploitation which makes planned obsolescence more cool then planned parenthood. Go forth and spawn little corporations... enslave your consumer and bring forth more... stuff. Little ones... they will come and they will pay!

It's no different in Linux land when it comes to distribution mutation and evolution. At least Novell had a good idea with SLED. If it's mature put it into a commercial quality product.

Maybe it's time to just... stop?

Maybe it's time to co-operate and get Linux to a point of maturity and stability where we're all not falling over each other trying to deliver the next best distribution? Leave that stability alone for 6 months.

Maybe it's time to merge KDE and Gnome?

Is Linux ever going to get close to being.... acceptable?

Probably not!

Acceptability will come for Linux if some people with real brains start to use unconventional marketing tactics as part of planned years of strategic thinking. These plans would need goals to be realistically met along measurable lines. The strategic plan would have to include a consortium of corporations, organizations, and interest groups which span the globe. If such a group existed it would immediately be setup upon by Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, the United States Government and any other other corporation or organizations which have a huge investment in the status quo.

Two hundred people swapping bytes on a Linux forum isn't going to change the status quo.

Eastern North American Proverbs:

The dog will pee on that tree regardless of how long the leash is and how sternly the walker scolds it. It's in the nature of dogs as it is the nature of the people who walk dogs. The talk is talk and the pee still hits the tree.

Real people don't yank their dog's leash when it has to go.