KDE doesn't need (certain) users?

**MaarteOS** · 27-Jun-2008, 15:34

I recently read a couple of journal entries from KDE developers, I think Jason Harris and Troy Unrau. While they were perhaps borderline rants, they saddened me deeply. As much as the recent vitriol that's been spread over the status of KDE 4.x.x.

Is it common concensus amongst the KDE developers that people who use KDE are not necessary if they do not contribute something? Perhaps I misunderstand the point, but nonetheless for the first time since I used KDE so many years ago, I actually felt guilty for using KDE.

I turned to Linux some years ago for accessibility features, and ofcourse stability, and also the freedom to work how I wanted to. My partner used Mandrake, but on seeing Suse Professional 9.3 we soon had a common platform to work with. Having read Troy and Jason's posts, all I can say in response is that I'm not a contributor. The most I have ever done is edit spelling and grammar errors in wiki pages. But I adore using KDE. There isn't a platform out there I haven't felt more comfortable with in a very long time. Your posts in some ways said "we don't want or need you (users)". For me, that's a horrible feeling to have, regardless of how much I would deny it, my connection to KDE is as emotional as it is practical. I make no apologies for feeling that way.

We don't evangelise, but our friends who see our openSUSE machine ask questions, and leave with the knowledge that there is more out there than they perhaps realised. Maybe it's what you want from us (users), maybe you want more. By all means deal with the people within a community who by their very nature, are anything but a part of it, but please, don't tell your users, people like me, that we're not needed. It makes us feel quite horrible

Kay

**dmoore316** · 27-Jun-2008, 21:20

I don't know Kay, it seems to me like you just made a contribution to KDE

.

Seriously, I can see some developers getting frustrated that people complain but never participate in the beta process, file request for features, or contribute code. I can especially see some becoming frustrated when there are a lot of people bashing on this or that in KDE4. Even if this is not just a brief overreaction by a couple people to some particular frustration, it is just a couple of people among the hundreds of people who develop for KDE, let alone the thousands or tens of thousands who "contribute." It certainly is not a widespread view.

And don't undersell the contribution of editing wikis or introducing others to the alternatives. Even if it doesn't seem like much, making documentation clearer is very important to other users. You also never know when something that seems small leads to more. You never know where that seed you plant with someone about the alternatives leads. So, when you challenge the view about ignoring non-contributers, don't forget to challenge any overly limited view of what constitutes a "contributer."

**Cryovac** · 27-Jun-2008, 22:50

The idea that KDE needs "contributors not users" is very evident in the 4.x release.

**Sagemta** · 28-Jun-2008, 03:13

The most I have ever done is edit spelling and grammar errors in wiki pages.

but our friends who see our openSUSE machine ask questions, and leave with the knowledge that there is more out there than they perhaps realised.

Make no mistake these are contributions just because you don't see what you do doesn't mean you do nothing.

R.F. Pels · 28-Jun-2008, 03:19

MaarteOS wrote:

> I recently read a couple of journal entries from KDE developers, I think
> Jason Harris and Troy Unrau. While they were perhaps borderline rants,
> they saddened me deeply. As much as the recent vitriol that's been
> spread over the status of KDE 4.x.x.

You know what? This whole KDE4 thing has been botched from the beginning.
And this is perpetuated by developers that do not WANT to realize the error
of their ways (Seigo, Unrau, to name a few) even in the face of very bitter
and loud opposition.

Comments telling them 'Give me back my desktop' should be able to tell them
something. But no. Alas. We just carry on polishing our shiny object...

--
Ruurd

**brucecadieux** · 28-Jun-2008, 04:26

Using openSUSE 11.0 with KDE3 as my desktop.

To be totally honest if KDE4 continues down the lame path it has taken, I may well be looking for a different DE.

I have been using KDE as my sole DE since the late 1990's, and I just can't come to grips with the ugliness and lack of functionality in KDE4, not to mention the default gaudiness of it.

Do I contribute?

Well I have been "paying" for my distro's since RedHat 5.4 throughout 7.3 and then every release of SuSE since SuSE 7.3 if they don't like the way I contribute they kiss my lilly white arse.

So when KDE3 is killed off, and replaced by KDE4 it will be time to change. Maybe a Mac is in my future as the ugly foot DE is even more disturbing to me then KDE4

**stefan1975** · 28-Jun-2008, 06:40

Originally Posted by brucecadieux

Using openSUSE 11.0 with KDE3 as my desktop.

To be totally honest if KDE4 continues down the lame path it has taken, I may well be looking for a different DE.

I have been using KDE as my sole DE since the late 1990's, and I just can't come to grips with the ugliness and lack of functionality in KDE4, not to mention the default gaudiness of it.

Do I contribute?

Well I have been "paying" for my distro's since RedHat 5.4 throughout 7.3 and then every release of SuSE since SuSE 7.3 if they don't like the way I contribute they kiss my lilly white arse.

So when KDE3 is killed off, and replaced by KDE4 it will be time to change. Maybe a Mac is in my future as the ugly foot DE is even more disturbing to me then KDE4

maybe openbox is something for you. fast. leightweight and certainly not bloated or prone to crash.

stefan

**PatrickAupperle** · 28-Jun-2008, 06:45

Introducing people to linux is a huge contribution. It is very possible that I could introduce 1 person to linux who then introduces 2 more. Then they both introduce 1 more. that is now 5 new linux users. Each could feel the need to contribute. If any of these 5 contribute, then that contribution would never have happened without you.

Somewhere along the line a new developer could even be introduced.
Just my opinion. Also you improve the lives of the people you introduce to linux.

**enderandrew** · 28-Jun-2008, 17:27

Originally Posted by MaarteOS

I recently read a couple of journal entries from KDE developers, I think Jason Harris and Troy Unrau. While they were perhaps borderline rants, they saddened me deeply. As much as the recent vitriol that's been spread over the status of KDE 4.x.x.

There has been a bunch of negative reaction to KDE 4, which I said there would be. I encouraged the devs to hold off on the "official release" and to temper expectations. I also suggested that certain concepts would not go over well. The developers seem quite shocked that people aren't completely happy with KDE 4, despite all the warnings for a good year about certain decisions that were made.

The tipping point however was a poster on KDE.org who called Aaron Siego Hitler. Aaron closed off his blog, and a bunch of developers are angry at ungrateful users now.

**Cryovac** · 28-Jun-2008, 20:27

Originally Posted by enderandrew

The tipping point however was a poster on KDE.org who called Aaron Siego Hitler. Aaron closed off his blog, and a bunch of developers are angry at ungrateful users now.

Oh, for crying out loud. There are idiots everywhere. To defer to them is to become them. And what the heck is "ungrateful" I wonder....people with concerns over where KDE is headed?