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Thread: Microsoft requires that Windows 8-certified machines use UEF

  1. #1
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    Default Microsoft requires that Windows 8-certified machines use UEF

    Not sure if this is sincere security development on MS's part or a deliberate power grab. In any case, it will be a problem for Linux.

    Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting | ITworld

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    Default Re: Microsoft requires that Windows 8-certified machines use UEF

    On 9/21/2011 12:16 PM, chief sealth wrote:
    >
    > Not sure if this is sincere security development on MS's part or a
    > deliberate power grab. In any case, it will be a problem for Linux.
    >
    > 'Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting | ITworld'
    > (http://tinyurl.com/6ee6nq2)
    >
    >


    If that becomes reality, that would maybe not mean the dead for Linux,
    but for all the other small OS on the market.
    I know in early times that you could trick Windows if you booted up
    with, lets say, a Linux Boot CD and maybe... ahem... alter the system.
    This would then of course not work anymore. At the same time it seem
    that the PC will be a Windows only environment which will be a hard pill
    to swallow for anyone that wants a dual boot option or perhaps not
    Windows at all.
    This maybe a case at least in the US for the government since one
    company will essentially control the whole pc business.
    I am not sure how that will affect homebrewn built pc's.

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    Default Re: Microsoft requires that Windows 8-certified machines use UEF

    On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:53:51 +0000, JoergJaeger wrote:

    > On 9/21/2011 12:16 PM, chief sealth wrote:
    >>
    >> Not sure if this is sincere security development on MS's part or a
    >> deliberate power grab. In any case, it will be a problem for Linux.
    >>
    >> 'Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting | ITworld'
    >> (http://tinyurl.com/6ee6nq2)
    >>
    >>
    >>

    > If that becomes reality, that would maybe not mean the dead for Linux,
    > but for all the other small OS on the market. I know in early times that
    > you could trick Windows if you booted up with, lets say, a Linux Boot CD
    > and maybe... ahem... alter the system. This would then of course not
    > work anymore. At the same time it seem that the PC will be a Windows
    > only environment which will be a hard pill to swallow for anyone that
    > wants a dual boot option or perhaps not Windows at all.
    > This maybe a case at least in the US for the government since one
    > company will essentially control the whole pc business. I am not sure
    > how that will affect homebrewn built pc's.


    If it ends up happening, I smell an antitrust suit or three that will end
    up being filed.

    That sort of anti-competitive behaviour would most certainly cause
    problems for Microsoft, and not just from users, but from partners like
    SUSE.....

    Jim
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    Default Re: Microsoft requires that Windows 8-certified machines use UEF

    It may require changes to the GNU/Linux boot loader, but IMHO some means of running a dual boot may be legally necessary, else there could be legal challenges in Europe, on possibly even a bigger scale than what has been seen in the past for anti-competitive behaviour of Microsoft with their monopoly.

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    Default Re: Microsoft requires that Windows 8-certified machines use UEF

    Call me stupid, ahem ... the bios, firmware, etc that controls the boot is nothing more than non-volatile memory known as Proms, Rom's, EEProm's et all. Yes a move by Microsoft to force manufacturers to build around UEFI in order to install Windows 8 would be an uphill battle. Manufacturers are not going to limit their options. To make a system board that will only run an untried and untested windows 8 and chop the floor out from under their upgrade market, other platforms market, network boot, CD boot, diskless markets would not be a good for business strategy. What I do see is them providing an option to turn on and off the feature either from an UEFI panel (like the bios set-up F2 or the like hotkey) or the ability to auto switch based upon the install set-up. I have seen it before in the days of Proprietary systems where an emulation would remap bios calls to the new proprietary bios at boot. Turn the clock back people to Microsoft ME (a disaster by all means). Microsoft wanted to lock down the boot here too. Intel, & Gigabyte did put out an Win-ME motherboard with a custom bios which failed almost immediately upon Windows ME test phase. OEM's were so disillusioned as to not even want to bench test such a restrictive venture.

    Malware, Viruses, Trojans, and any other security breachable form is NOT going to stopped dead by UEFI, it's just going to take a little longer for someone or somegroup to find a way to exploit it's way in. I pose this rather incomplete synopsis to the issue. A Manufacturer builds a Windows 8 certified and verified board which an OEM builds a system around and installs Windows 8. Are you going to restrict users from downloading programs unless they come from Microsoft or a vendor-partner? Are you going to restrict emails, macros, so they can't trick the system into accepting a fake certification and gain base access into make UEFI firmware changes?

    When people saw how badly Windows Vista ran, they had already sunk their teeth into massive hardware upgrades to be able to run Vista. Did that stop them from reversing back to XP or even their old 2K or 98 ... no! Microsoft had to do some back pedaling and fast! With this change however, Microsoft is asking Board Manufacturers and OEM's to adopt a proprietary boot format that secludes any possibility of backing away from an unacceptable OS experience other than to replace/return the hardware and go back to the bios method and their old OS. IMHO I wouldn't choose a system with no rollback option and while consumers may not understand the far reaching details, I do think they will become quite angry if they buy a new system for $1000 to $4000 and be told later "oh you want to return to Windows 7 or vista ... then you need to re-buy the hardware for another $1000 to $4000 and no we won't take back and refund the new hardware"
    When your up to your a** in Alligators it's pretty hard to remember you intended to drain the swamp (author unknown)

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    Default Re: Microsoft requires that Windows 8-certified machines use UEF

    I don't know how relavent this is, but Arch Linux has a wiki article on UEFI https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...ware_Interface

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    Default Re: Microsoft requires that Windows 8-certified machines use UEF

    Might this trigger the shift to GPT in Linux? Linux already supports GPT with EFI - something which Windows cannot currently do. If Windows 8 is trying effectively to leapfrog where Linux is already, there might be benefits for Linux in pushing UEFI and GPT development.

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    Default Re: Microsoft requires that Windows 8-certified machines use UEF

    You can enable UEFI in the kernel.
    The required kernel configurations for UEFI systems are : Important UEFI related options -
    Code:
    CONFIG_EFI=yCONFIG_RELOCATABLE=yCONFIG_FB_EFI=yCONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE=y
    GUID Partition Table config option - very important for UEFI
    Code:
    CONFIG_EFI_PARTITION=y
    UEFI Runtime Services Support - 'efivars' kernel module - optional but 'm' recommended since it can cause booting in some Sandy Bridge UEFI systems if compiled in the kernel image itself.
    Code:
    CONFIG_EFI_VARS=m or y
    Taken from the article I mentioned above.

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    Default Re: Microsoft requires that Windows 8-certified machines use UEF

    Quote Originally Posted by john_hudson View Post
    Might this trigger the shift to GPT in Linux? Linux already supports GPT with EFI - something which Windows cannot currently do. If Windows 8 is trying effectively to leapfrog where Linux is already, there might be benefits for Linux in pushing UEFI and GPT development.
    Yes did more reading on it and it does appear closer that it's a move towards EFI-GPT and through the efforts of the UEFI group to adopt UEFI-GPT.
    I got from what I read that the motherboard will have standard BIOS-MBR or UEFI support selectable. 32bit machines will not be able to use UEFI so only the BIOS-MBR method will be present. The worrisome part is that the Protected UEFI partition was stated as being fat32 formatted but capable of multi-booting multiple UEFI-GPT partitions for multiple OS's.
    When your up to your a** in Alligators it's pretty hard to remember you intended to drain the swamp (author unknown)

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    Default Re: Microsoft requires that Windows 8-certified machines use UEF

    On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 05:26:03 +0000, oldcpu wrote:

    > It may require changes to the GNU/Linux boot loader, but IMHO some means
    > of running a dual boot may be legally necessary, else there could be
    > legal challenges in Europe, on possibly even a bigger scale than what
    > has been seen in the past for anti-competitive behaviour of Microsoft
    > with their monopoly.


    We're thinking the same thing here, oldcpu - the EC would probably go
    nuts over this.

    Jim



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