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Thread: openSUSE Strategy: Base for derivatives

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Prague, Czech Republic
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    Lightbulb openSUSE Strategy: Base for derivatives

    Hello again!

    As we promised earlier[1] starting today we'll be discussing the second
    of strategies: Base for derivatives[2].

    [1] http://news.opensuse.org/2010/06/17/...d-discussions/
    [2] http://en.opensuse.org/Documents/Strategy/Derivatives

    ----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<----

    openSUSE - Base for derivatives
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    1.) Statement:

    We are a diverse active and inviting community delivering the best
    foundation for Linux derivatives by providing a high quality,
    long-term supported core distribution, with tools and infrastructure
    to easily build on top of it. We encourage projects and developers to
    create additional building blocks and specialized spin-offs and
    provide a platform to make them visible and appreciated.

    The center of this strategy is a high quality and long-term supported
    core distribution surrounded by tools to build derivatives which
    includes remote system administration. Behind that we will have
    a marketing team spreading the word about our Project and the
    derivatives made with it. Additionally, we will provide derivatives
    for desktops, server usage, software and web development. To be
    successful we see the collaboration with upstream and other Linux
    distributions as a key factor in providing quality derivatives.

    2.) Key ideas:

    * reduce the number of packages in Factory
    - provide smaller, stable, high quality core distro
    - provide Long Term Support (LTS) for this reduced set
    - core suitable for servers
    - available for more platforms (including ARM, PowerPC, etc.)
    * provide platform for building derivatives around core distro
    (onion model)
    - building blocks - software grouped by theme
    (Build Service - repositories)
    - infrastructure for building spinoffs
    (Build Service - kiwi image build / SUSE Studio)
    - spin-offs promotion
    ("gallery" for spin-offs with ratings, download links, etc.)
    * support diversity
    - openSUSE as a base for MeeGo, OpenWRT and other projects
    - desktop spin-offs for users (KDE, GNOME, LXDE, Xfce)
    - specialized spin-offs like Education, Photo edition

    3.) Activities:

    3.a.) We need to be excellent in the following:

    * provide stable core packages with LTS (Factory)
    * openSUSE Build Service
    * provide tools for remote system administration
    * process/mechanism to qualify those custom distribution for usage of
    openSUSE name/trademark
    * large testing of various OBS repositories combinations

    3.b.) We will try to do the following effectively:

    * provide the openSUSE distro as it is today (no long term support)
    * provide environment for web development (webserver/database stack)
    * provide development tools for C/C++, Java, C#, J, Python, Ruby, ...
    * collaboration with upstream
    * collaboration with other Linux distros

    3.c.) As project, we will not focus on the following anymore:

    * There are many packages that exist in Factory and we don't know if
    they are used or needed. We'll have them in major OBS projects only.

  2. #2

    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Base for derivatives

    I'm a KDE user and used Suse for more than 5 (five) years now. Anyway, I'm
    disappointed by this very poor release and seriously think on moving to Kubuntu
    or Fedora KDE spin. It looks like a thing done hasty and without love.

    OpenSUSE 11.3 it's a very poor release because:
    1. After installing the 11.3 GM 64 bit DVD, the release notes that were
    automatically downloaded were about the Factory version
    2. After installation, the system keeps on freezing (I thing it's a KMS related
    problem). Insufficient testing for a mainstream distro like openSUSE.
    3. The whole installation system is antique and less shiny compared to the one
    in Kubuntu. It should auto detetct and use the display's native resolution, bu
    it doesn't.
    4. And not to forget that whole green theme. It is a bad joke and appropriate
    only for a Factory version.
    5. When you type in a console "yast2 runle" and press the TAB it doesn't
    autocomplete anymore (like in 11.2). This is just one example (the same applies
    to disk module, lan module, sw_single module, etc)
    6. It doesn't provide a live DVD from within you can start the installation.

    I used to love openSUSE. Now I think that the SUSE coordinators should catch up
    with the times and take a look at a modern linux distro like Kubuntu,
    especially for the mentioned points (1,2,3,4 and 6).

  3. #3

    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Base for derivatives

    Reducing the number of packages in Factory and expanding the number of repos is a bad idea. This is one of the things for which OpenSUSE is already criticized.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Joplin, MO - USA
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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Base for derivatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansus View Post
    Reducing the number of packages in Factory and expanding the number of repos is a bad idea. This is one of the things for which OpenSUSE is already criticized.
    I completely agree.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Base for derivatives

    grip2die wrote:
    > I'm a KDE user and used Suse for more than 5 (five) years now.

    [snip]
    > I used to love openSUSE. [snip]


    thanks for the thoughts (placed in the wrong forum and thread) first
    time poster who has used "Suse for more than 5 (five) years" and
    *still* can't spell it..

    suggestion: use what works for you...that is what i do, and suggest
    all other to do likewise..

    but unlike some, i don't visit Kubuntu or other fora to bellyache and
    disrespect their efforts..

    --
    DenverD
    CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD [posted via NNTP w/openSUSE 10.3]

  6. #6

    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Base for derivatives

    grip2die wrote:

    > OpenSUSE 11.3 it's a very poor release because:
    > 1. After installing the 11.3 GM 64 bit DVD, the release notes that
    > were automatically downloaded were about the Factory version
    > 2. After installation, the system keeps on freezing (I thing it's a
    > KMS related problem). Insufficient testing for a mainstream distro
    > like openSUSE.
    > 3. The whole installation system is antique and less shiny compared to
    > the one in Kubuntu. It should auto detetct and use the display's
    > native resolution, but it doesn't.
    > 4. And not to forget that whole green theme. It is a bad joke and
    > appropriate only for a Factory version.
    > 5. When you type in a console "yast2 runle" and press the TAB it
    > doesn't autocomplete anymore (like in 11.2). This is just one example
    > (the same applies to disk module, lan module, sw_single module, etc)
    > 6. It doesn't provide a live DVD from within you can start the
    > installation.


    Sure it does :

    http://download.opensuse.org/distrib...iveCD-i686.iso

    > I used to love openSUSE. Now I think that the SUSE coordinators should
    > catch up with the times and take a look at a modern linux distro like
    > Kubuntu, especially for the mentioned points (1,2,3,4 and 6).


    Troll. Of the six issues you have mentioned only #2 is real, the rest
    are just your opinion or very minor details.



    --
    Per Jessen, Zürich (19.0°C)
    http://en.opensuse.org/Userjessen

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Location
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    5,328

    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Base for derivatives

    Quote Originally Posted by pjessen View Post
    Of the six issues you have mentioned only #2 is real, the rest
    are just your opinion or very minor details.
    Totally agree with that analysis. The other five issues are weak "soapbox" and IMO that's where the target post should have been placed.

  8. #8

    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Base for derivatives

    Quote Originally Posted by pjessen View Post
    grip2die wrote:

    > OpenSUSE 11.3 it's a very poor release because:
    > 1. After installing the 11.3 GM 64 bit DVD, the release notes that
    > were automatically downloaded were about the Factory version
    > 2. After installation, the system keeps on freezing (I thing it's a
    > KMS related problem). Insufficient testing for a mainstream distro
    > like openSUSE.
    > 3. The whole installation system is antique and less shiny compared to
    > the one in Kubuntu. It should auto detetct and use the display's
    > native resolution, but it doesn't.
    > 4. And not to forget that whole green theme. It is a bad joke and
    > appropriate only for a Factory version.
    > 5. When you type in a console "yast2 runle" and press the TAB it
    > doesn't autocomplete anymore (like in 11.2). This is just one example
    > (the same applies to disk module, lan module, sw_single module, etc)
    > 6. It doesn't provide a live DVD from within you can start the
    > installation.


    Sure it does :

    http://download.opensuse.org/distrib...iveCD-i686.iso

    > I used to love openSUSE. Now I think that the SUSE coordinators should
    > catch up with the times and take a look at a modern linux distro like
    > Kubuntu, especially for the mentioned points (1,2,3,4 and 6).


    Troll. Of the six issues you have mentioned only #2 is real, the rest
    are just your opinion or very minor details.



    --
    Per Jessen, Zürich (19.0°C)
    Userjessen - openSUSE
    let's be nice to each other. The user has a few points - ok, the green color you can like or dislike, but 5 is an unfortunate polish issue, as is 3, despite both being minor. Fixing such minor issues is what made Ubuntu so big!

    Of course Kubuntu doesn't do much better than oS, more like worse, but at least they try to indeed fix such things. It wouldn't be a bad idea if we would, too. At least, if we decide we want to cater to end users and we thus decide against the strategy being talked about here!

  9. #9

    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Base for derivatives

    So what do we think about this strategy? Should openSUSE scale back it's ambitions, and turn into a debian like distribution where the actual end product is less important than the platform it provides?

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Location
    United Kingdom
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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Base for derivatives

    Given debian is well established along with highly visible derivatives, what project "objective(s)" does this strategy expect to fulfill?

    From a brand/marketing perspective, openSUSE would be in direct competition with debian + all its derivatives (deb v. rpm etc). How well have the KDE derivative distros done based on debian, at the moment I can only think of Mepis? Also, isn't debian relatively free of commercial interference or conflict of interest which could be important to potential distro builders?

    For market positioning reasons and little past derivative success, I see this as a very risky strategy offering little or no benefit to the current user base. I could envisage lots of openSUSE users departing. By all means disagree here!

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