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Thread: openSUSE Strategy: Home for developers

  1. #1
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    Default openSUSE Strategy: Home for developers

    Hi all!

    As we promised earlier[1] starting today we'll be discussing the first
    of strategies: Home for developers[2]. Please try to add your comments
    to particular bulletpoints or sentences, so it is easier for us to merge
    your suggestions into final form. Happy discussing!

    [1] http://news.opensuse.org/2010/06/17/...d-discussions/
    [2] http://en.opensuse.org/Documents/Strategy/Development

  2. #2
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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Home for developers

    prusnak wrote:
    > Hi all!
    >
    > As we promised earlier[1] starting today we'll be discussing the first
    > of strategies: Home for developers[2]. Please try to add your comments
    > to particular bulletpoints or sentences, so it is easier for us to
    > merge
    > your suggestions into final form. Happy discussing!


    is it the intention to pick one of the three as _the_ strategy for the
    way forward

    1 openSUSE - Home for developers
    2 openSUSE - Base for derivatives
    3 openSUSE - Mobile and cloud ready distribution

    *or* is the intention to so shape the internals of those there paths
    so that all of those can be achieved?

    i ask becuase i just a few days ago i read an article in Linux
    Journal, June 2010, Issue 194, article title _Philosophy and Fancy_,
    page 56 leads me to believe there is already a great "home for
    developers" "A distro put together for a hacker will ... have a raft
    of coding tools ... Slackware is aimed squarely at this demographic."

    and, i think it is pretty easy to agree that Google/Android/Chrome is
    already light years ahead on the third strategy..

    so, will we let the devs currently and firmly in the drivers seat have
    their way (number one) or the new kids (and millions and millons of
    potential users) theirs (number three) or are we gonna mash'em all
    together and continue to produce a stable, dependable, trustworthy
    generic base linux (number two) which our major sponsor can turn into
    a commercial desktop AND server AND something to sell to the mobile
    hardware makers AND . . .?

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Home for developers

    One thing I would like to see, as a volunteer for providing support, is some sort of guidance provided by the developers (and the packagers) to the support volunteers , in providing guidance so that the support volunteers can document the way things are done for basic user support.

    I constantly find myself reverse engineering (to a limited extent) what has been done, in order to understand enough to write a wiki, or some sort of guide.

    This is true not only for the developers, but also wrt the packagers, who play a key roll in repackaging the developers' applications, so that regular users can use the package. Sometimes how the application is packaged by a packager, can have an important impact on how the application functions.

    Now if the developers/packagers will write all of the wiki/guides, then there is less need for such a guidance/communication to volunteers like me (as the wiki/guide created by the developer/packager provides all the information). ... but somehow I think the developers and packagers do not want to write the wiki ....

    So, the question in my mind, is how do we BETTER go about this ? How do we ensure there is a downstream flow of information, instead of a forced upstream reverse engineering learning (which is what happens now to a certain extent) ?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Home for developers

    Quote Originally Posted by DenverD View Post
    is it the intention to pick one of the three as _the_ strategy for the
    way forward

    1 openSUSE - Home for developers
    2 openSUSE - Base for derivatives
    3 openSUSE - Mobile and cloud ready distribution

    *or* is the intention to so shape the internals of those there paths
    so that all of those can be achieved?
    The intention is to shape the internals of the strategies so we'll end up with one strategy that most of us want to follow. It might happen that activities from one strategy will appear in another, but we don't want to create a meld of these 3 strategies.
    0118 999 881 999 119 725 3

  5. #5
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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Home for developers

    prusnak wrote:

    > Please try to add your comments to particular bulletpoints or
    > sentences, so it is easier for us to merge your suggestions into
    > final form. Happy discussing!



    your post in the forum didn't include the text as did your post to the
    mail list, i include it now so forum users can copy and then add/edit
    as you suggest:


    openSUSE - Home for developers
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    1.) Statement:

    We deliver the most integrated platform for developers (e.g. web
    developers, system developers, Qt/GTK developers, Android/MeeGo/WebOS
    developers, etc.)

    To be the ideal home for developers we deliver all popular open source
    IDEs and related tools and the perfect desktops suited for them to
    make the development efficient. Additionally we deliver a decent
    server platform to allow direct deployment of web applications and
    make rapid testing possible. By providing integration with social
    networks and collaboration tools, we enable developers to work
    flawlessly in a distributed environments and enable the usage of
    agile techniques.

    2.) Activities:

    2.a.) We need to be excellent in the following:

    * Out-of-box experience for all popular open source IDEs, integration
    and development of related tools (graphical debugger, etc.)
    * Provide tools to easily deploy developed software (e.g. server
    integration, Build Service, etc.) more tightly coupled to tools
    * Provide infrastructure to distribute software (e.g. Build Service,
    SUSE Studio)
    * Provide desktop environments fitting the needs of developers
    * Cooperation with team projects to make openSUSE their
    development platform of choice
    * Deliver the most up-to-date development libraries to make app
    development rock (also allow to keep multiple versions)
    * Integrate social networks and collaboration tools
    * Collaboration with other Linux distros

    2.b.) We will try to do the following effectively:

    * Provide GUI administration tools, including WebYaST
    * Lobby for open standards
    * Market openSUSE at events
    * Continue testing and bugfixing in an efficient way

    2.c.) As project, we will not focus on the following anymore:

    * Applications not related to development (directly or indirectly)




    end
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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Home for developers

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcpu View Post
    One thing I would like to see, as a volunteer for providing support, is some sort of guidance provided by the developers (and the packagers) to the support volunteers , in providing guidance so that the support volunteers can document the way things are done for basic user support.
    I fully support oldcpu's request - whatever strategy is chosen. It should be a basic requirement on any organization that has ambition to grow its community of contributors, and to support its existing user group in that effort, not to mention the project's wider reputation.

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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Home for developers

    Quote Originally Posted by prusnak View Post
    Please try to add your comments
    to particular bulletpoints or sentences, so it is easier for us to merge
    your suggestions into final form. Happy discussing!
    I can not find a point relative to support. Is it just me having another classic oldcpu oversight ? Or is support to users no longer part of the openSUSE strategy ?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Home for developers

    prusnak wrote:
    > The intention is to shape the internals of the strategies so we'll end
    > up with one strategy that most of us want to follow. It might happen
    > that activities from one strategy will appear in another, but we don't
    > want to create a meld of these 3 strategies.



    does your answer mean those three are the *only* strategies available
    for the future of openSUSE, and NONE of those can be modified enough
    to have a strategy which leads "the Community" into a future of:

    openSUSE - A stable (but exciting), dependable (but modern and forward
    looking), predictable (but not boring) and secure (yet accessable)
    Linux loved by developers, programmers, contributors
    mobile/cloud/home/office users, governments, institutions, back
    office/cloud/isp/webstore/etc server administrators and Linux
    Enterprise software derivatives makers (Novell) and professional
    quality server and mainframe hardware makers/sellers (like HP, IBM,
    DELL, CRAY, etc etc etc)


    is there not room for something like that?

    if not, then i'm in the wrong place...and, good luck with the
    soon-to-be niche openSUSE operating system.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Home for developers

    oldcpu wrote:
    > I can not find a point relative to support. Is it just me having
    > another classic oldcpu oversight ? Or is support to users no longer
    > part of the openSUSE strategy ?



    it is NOT there, anywhere...from the point of view i can gather users
    are all of those who do not contribute, and therefore do not count and
    should not be considered..

    i can only guess that from these few quotes i gathered from the
    strategy discussion on the mail list and are representative of some of
    "the Community" leaders:

    audience is listening only, contributors are taking part. openSUSE is
    no big band (maybe sometimes ) it's a project which lives from
    contributions not 'feeding customers'.

    That's why I previously said we need more contributors, no users, no
    customers, no leechers and no 'audience'. Don't get me wrong. As
    mentioned, even if you submit a bug and give feedback, you contribute.

    It's US who makes the project vital.
    cite: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-p.../msg00295.html

    We can't have contributors without users and we can't have users with
    contributors, but I think contributors have to come first, because
    they are essential in producing what will attract the user.
    cite: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-p.../msg00283.html

    To target - and thus to grow - the users , we need to grow the
    contributors. Right now I think the openSUSE project should
    concentrate on growing the contributors so that those then grow users...
    cite: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-p.../msg00375.html

    of course, the problem with that going in assumption is that the only
    folks who should download the install disk the FIRST time should be
    those who have already contributed, or screw them when they get a
    black screen, or format away daddy's tax records!

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: openSUSE Strategy: Home for developers

    I suspect maybe the need for support was simply "understood/implicit" and so intuitively obvious to those creating the Strategy that it never occured to them as being needed as a separate entry.

    But I believe a separate entry for support may be useful to have one, as by adding it as an appropriate separate entry, it could "drive some activities" which will hopefully help developers and packagers (by ensuring users know enough about their (developer/packagers) applications to provide good feedback), it will hopefully help support staff (by ensuring they understand what packagers/developers are implementing and hence can then support users better) and it will hopefully help users (by ensuring they understand how to install, and use applications).

    ... but perhaps I have missed this in the wording... There IS a LOT of good stuff there.

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