KNetworkManager problem after console login

[nick_battle]

I occasionally want to login via a console rather than via the GUI (ie. Alt-N from the GUI, login to a command prompt, do some work, then startx to start KDE).

Everything is fine in KDE when I do this apart from the network connection. KNetworkManager will not connect to my wireless (or even list the network) when I login via the console. But with a GUI login of the same user, everything is fine. I'm using KDE3.

There are some errors in /var/log/messages, which may be a clue:

Mar 22 16:07:04 pollux dbus-daemon: Rejected send message, 2 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.59" (uid=1001 pid=8714 comm="knetworkmanager [kdeinit]                         ") interface="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager" member="GetDevices" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager" (uid=0 pid=2716 comm="/usr/sbin/NetworkManager "))

Mar 22 16:07:04 pollux dbus-daemon: Rejected send message, 2 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.59" (uid=1001 pid=8714 comm="knetworkmanager [kdeinit]                         ") interface="org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties" member="Get" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager" (uid=0 pid=2716 comm="/usr/sbin/NetworkManager "))

Mar 22 16:07:32 pollux dbus-daemon: Rejected send message, 2 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.53" (uid=1001 pid=8697 comm="kded4 ") interface="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager" member="GetDevices" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager" (uid=0 pid=2716 comm="/usr/sbin/NetworkManager "))

Mar 22 16:07:32 pollux dbus-daemon: Rejected send message, 2 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.53" (uid=1001 pid=8697 comm="kded4 ") interface="org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties" member="Get" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager" (uid=0 pid=2716 comm="/usr/sbin/NetworkManager "))

I assume this means KNetworkManager and kded4 (with KDE3?) cannot talk to NetworkManager after a console login? But why not?

Cheers,
-nick

[hcvv]

I am trying to reconstruct what you are doing. openSUSE 10.3 and KDE 3.5 here. These are my observations.

I tried ALT-N in the GUI. Nothing happened!

I tried ALT-N from the kdm login screen. Nothing happened.

I looked in the System menu of the kdm login screen. It has: 'Console login Cntrl-N'. It this what you mean?

I used it and the console was shown. A CNTRL-ALT-F7 did not show the kdm login screen so I suppose that X it is killed, but I do not know in which runlevel we are now.

As you say you use startx, I suppose you log in as root. I did. I used startx. I then reached a GUI loged as ROOT. THIS SHOULD NEVER BEEN DONE! I killed this asap with CNTRL-ALT-BS. Back in the console CLI I used

init 3
init 5

To get my kdm login screen again.

End of test.

I am not sure I did exactly what you do, but this would not be my method. When I would feel need to use the console CLI (as user or as root) I would use CNTRL-ALT-F1 (from the KDE GUI or from the kdm login) to go there.

After finishing there I would use CNTRL-ALT-F7 to go back too the GUI screen.

When running in the console CLI and need arises to have the whole X shut down I would (as root) use

init 3

to switch the GUI of and

init 5

to go back to normal.

As the above observations contain nothing about your networkmanager problem, you may be disapointed with my reaction. But I think that it is possible that the fact that killing your kdm might be done going to runlevel 3. Your startx would not restore runlevel 5 then. As a consquence knetworkmanager may not want to start the network (a lot of may be's here).

Maybe my method of working may fit your needs and also solve your problem.

Hope this helps.

[hcvv]

I did some more testing using CNTRL-N from the kdm login screen.

When I log in (in the console CLI) as a normal user and log out again, nothing particular happens.

When I log in as root and log out again, after some seconds the kdm login screen pops up again. Back to normal.

When I use runlevel during my root session. it still shows runlevel 5. So the emptyness of logical screen 7 is not due to going to runlevel 3.

[nick_battle]

I think they've changed the method of getting from the GUI login to a console from CTRL-N (10.3) to Alt-N (11.1), but yes, this is what I'm trying to do. The GUI login re-appears (sometimes...?) after a short delay when you logout, yes. Strictly, I don't think this is changing the runlevel.

I would (typically) login as myself from the console, not root. It lets me run things with minimal other processes running, for example.

So the X session I'm subsequently trying to start with startx should be the normal one for my user. I was expecting everything to run as normal - but networking doesn't.

I should have mentioned I'm on SUSE 11.1, and KDE 3.5, sorry.

Cheers,
-nick

[hcvv]

Thannk for the further explanation.

The GUI login re-appears (sometimes...?) after a short delay when you logout, yes

As i did not do it to often, my idea that it does/does not re-appear using root/norml user may be a wrong interpratation on my side.

And I agree that no runlevel change is involved.

Talking about your knetworkmanager problem. I do not know what the usage of the system is. But I found out that many people use knetworkmanager (which connects to the network when a user logs in) instead of the normal/traditional method of using the startup scripts (using ifup) on reaching runlevel 3. The knetworkmanager method is for laptops that travel around and use wifi connections found on the spot. The traditional method is much better for servers, desktops ad laptops that are only using the same network all the time. You willl then have your network also when the GUI is not running.

[Knurpht]

You guys and girls are missing something: if you let the Networkmanager do the networking, the connection is made after logging in to the desktop. So, if you login to the desktop, wait for the connection to be established by the networkmanager, you can hit Ctrl-Alt-F1 to enter the console, and you will have networking.
If you want the networking started at boot, you'd have to configure networking with if-up. This way you can have any networking started at boot, being available at the login-screen.
But, if you're on a laptop, that you're willing to connect elsewhere, you should use the Networkmanager.

TIP: ever considered using yakuake? It's a full featured terminal app, that even keeps running when plasma crashes....so you can restart plasma, by just hitting F12 (or the key defined to open yakuake) and typing: plasma. I've been using it since it's first beta's. And, since it runs on the desktop, networkconnections are available.

Hope I understood well, and that this helps you

[Akoellh]

First of all:

Yes, using ifup instead of NetworkManager is certainly a way to get (W)LAN working without GIU.

If you really want to try getting it to work with Networkmanager in non graphical Runlevel, you can try "cnetworkmanager".

Never used it, so I have no idea how mature it is, but at least it claims to be a CLI-Interface to NetworkManager.

[nick_battle]

Thanks for the replies.

I can see what I'm doing is a little unusual. Perhaps using ifup/down is the way to go - I've used this in the past, but as the machine is a laptop I thought it would be more useful to have the flexibility of connecting "on the road" easily.

I appreciate that I can CTRL-ALT-F1 after the desktop has established the network to get to a console, but for certain tasks I want the machine as quiet (and RAM as empty) as possible, so the runlevel3-like feature of a console login via ALT-N is very useful. Switching to a console from the GUI has the whole of X and KDE running in the background still.

I'll have a look at cnetworkmanager, thanks.

Am I wrong to think that this "should work" though? I wonder what's different about starting KDE via kdm compared to via startx, as far as NetworkManager is concerned?

Cheers,
-nick

[hcvv]

Am I wrong to think that this "should work" though? I wonder what's different about starting KDE via kdm compared to via startx, as far as NetworkManager is concerned?

As far as I can see it, you are correct in thinking that it "should work".

[Akoellh]

It should, but I just tested it and it doesn't, no interfaces are available in knetworkmanager although NWM, dbus and hal are running.

If you start knetworkmanager as root (bad, I know) the interfaces are available there.

Obviously using "startx" from RL3 misses one function/service necessary for a "normal" User to get the privileges acessing network interfaces via NWM (but don't ask me which one).

It is very likely, that cnetworkmanager will also not work then.