Suggestions for openSUSE-11.1 Newbie Installation stickie?

[oldcpu]

Originally Posted by conram

Can the newbie term on the title be replaced with something like newOpenSuSers
In green representing the suse color.

I removed the newbie in some places, but left it in the Title. I changed the colour in the 1st to posts to a couple different shades of green.

I confess playing with colours to make somethink look more readible/attractive is not my forte .... but I'm hoping this results in an improvement and partially addresses your suggestion.

[tsu2]

Originally Posted by oldcpu

I do not believe this to be accurate.

I have downloaded torrent files that were corrupted, but the torrent application gave me a completed message.

Later I realized the file was corrupted, and I then forced (on the bittorrent application) the torrent checksum, and then, and only then, did the torrent application pickup on the fact that the downloaded file was corrupted.

I suppose since applications can be written poorly and one might not have sufficient faith in what they're using, a manual checksum can be done.

I have seen this behaviour on both ktorrent and azureus. This is not common, but it does happen. I've had this happen about 1/2 dozen times over the course of the past few years.

Hence I believe the md5sum check of the iso file is still useful, even for iso files downloaded by torrent.

That would be a very poor Torrent Client, it would indicate faulty code. As I noted, the checksums are there for the application to <automatically> check not just each piece but the finished file.

I have used a few Torrent clients for many years, uTorrent on Windows and built my own MonoTorrent Client (which is of course cross platform) and have never experienced a faulty download except when the source was bad (a 100% record).

Edit Addendum: Just a thought, although not widely discussed it's good practice to create different directories for files in the process of being downloaded and completed. If you do this, you can be <sure> the file has completed and no straggler pieces are left wanting. Yes, if you <think> the file has completed but it hasn't and you shutdown/remove the file with positive confirmation the result can be an incomplete file.

[BenderBendingRodriguez]

It might also indicate (correct me if i am wrong) that there might be a bad sector at the place where the file is downloaded?? As torrent client (ktorrent at least) has it's temporary chunks of file somewhere else than the place the whole file exists and i don't think it checks it again after applying it to the file so it's a good idea then to check the whole file after finishing the download.

[tsu2]

Originally Posted by BenderBendingRodriguez

It might also indicate (correct me if i am wrong) that there might be a bad sector at the place where the file is downloaded?? As torrent client (ktorrent at least) has it's temporary chunks of file somewhere else than the place the whole file exists and i don't think it checks it again after applying it to the file so it's a good idea then to check the whole file after finishing the download.

No, if the Torrent client is written properly it will do a checksum on the entire finished file so any physical disk imperfections would be addressed, too.

[BenderBendingRodriguez]

Yes i know, i mean that the torrent client doesn't check md sum of the chunks being written so if there are bad sectors it's necessary to download it again and again. I encountered it couple of times in a cafe, download seemed to finish but when i checked the file it appeared it has "holes" in it .

[Caracalla]

Originally Posted by Caracalla

That, would be very welcome.

But it turned out to be quite easy

[oldcpu]

Originally Posted by oldcpu

Typically, my very first things to do after a fresh openSUSE installation are

• get internet functioning
• setup my repositories for easy software installation (oss, non-oss, update and packman) [others to be added later only after one understands implications and how to work around problems that can crop up]
• update my multimedia (to have entertaining music for remainder of setup)

Whats the view? Should that (with more detailed but still simple instructions) be added as a page to the Installation/stickie, or as a different stickie, or a how-to ?

My view is it does not belong in the stickie for installation (but should be a how-to), but I concede thats sort of a border line call. I'm sure others see this different. What does everyone think?

I was curious if there was any input as to whether we should provide more guidance on 3rd party apps for new users (in the new users installation stickie) or whether the view was that belonged in the realm of how-tos ??

For example, I note this useful guide of caf4926's:
Multi-media and Restricted Format Installation Guide - openSUSE Forums

[caf4926]

Re; 3rd party
Lee, I notice there are plenty of pointers in the Newbies thread eg: NEWBIES - Suse-11.1 Pre-installation – PLEASE READ - openSUSE Forums

Of course that is great, but, as I have previously suggested/mentioned. Oneclick is all very well (and I even link to them in the HowTo you quote), but they do seem to result in repo conflicts. The New user does not actually understand what has happened. The next thing is the updater lists updates and there is a stack of dependedcy problems.

I don't think there is any easy answer, as it is often the case that the inexperienced plunge head long in to a installation frenzy. Trying to do everything at once.

3rd party applications are a Huge part of the whole picture and in my opinion it would be good to have something Clear and Obvious in the newbies section (even if it is a header, brief statement and then link to good HowTo's) Though I'm not sure mine qualifies.

On another note, but related to the Newbie thread, at #2
Under BIOS
It would be good if you added some pointers to help people with this. I have seen quite a number of threads recently with users not knowing how to access their BIOS. Yes, I know - is it Esc. Del. F1???? But something there maybe.

But so far so good with what you have done there Lee. Nice work.

[mingus725]

Regarding integrity of bitorrent downloads . . .

I'm a bit concerned whether we have the necessary clarity on verifying the download integrity. I have little technical expertise in this area; I'm too ignorant to contest any of the above comments. But looking at the Ktorrent settings and forums on this topic, it seems that (a) chunks are verified as downloaded but (b) there is an option to check the download once complete. Why would there need to be the latter if the former is adequate? How is the latter different from the former (because it has now been written to disk, whereas the chunks are verified on-the-fly)? I also seem to remember reading somewhere that not all clients do validations, or do so only as an option? If so, should certain (likely Windows) clients be recommended by name? Or are there other reasons to recommend particular clients?

With 11.0 we got hammered here pretty hard with questions/complaints that were due to bad downloads/burns, taking away valuable time better spent on other issues. My point is that there needs to be a comprehensive while still understandable explanation on how to get the user to valid media - and we need it to be precisely correct.

By the way, indirectly related, today I did a LiveCD media check that reported OK on a CD that failed the K3B verification test a few minutes earlier. I've suggested the K3B test in the past as a compliment to the media's own self-test, but this has me nervous now.

[Axeia]

You might want to take a look at or link to SuSE | HowtoForge - Linux Howtos and Tutorials it has VERY graphical guides which new people seem to appreciate especially those new to something with a second computer in visible range of the other.

As you can easily match your own screen to that displayed on the site to be assured you ended up at the right 'next step'.
Now I can't say I ever used the how-to's myself so I don't know if they're actually good but at a first glance it seems useful and at the very least it's fast with being up to date as 11.1 is already on it.