11.3 milestone-7 intial look on various PCs

[oldcpu]

I tested various PCs with 11.3 Milestone-7 build-0625. The experience in many respects was similar to that of Milestone-6, although I did encounter a new 64-bit bug with firefox. All the tests below were done with liveCDs.

64-bit liveCD Experience:

• PC#1: booted with openSUSE-11.3 64-bit M6 KDE4 liveCD on my 64-bit Intel Core i7 920 w/6GB (Asus P6T Deluxe V2 motherboard) w/ PCI-e nVidia GeForce GTX260 graphics. PC booted using the Noveau graphic driver at maximum expected resolution (1920x1200). As expected, special desktop effects does not work with Noveau driver.
  Sound works. Wired Internet works. But Firefox immediately crashes when run, forcing me to use Konqueror as the web browser.
  .
• PC#2: booted with openSUSE-11.3 64-bit M6 KDE4 liveCD on my 64-bit Dell Studio 1537, Intel P8400 w/4GB, w/ATI Radeon 3450HD graphics . Sound just worked. Graphics booted with the Radeon open source driver (as evident in the /var/log/Xorg.0.log file) at maximum expected resolution (1440x900). The graphics came up with special desktop effects and was impressive. I had seen this behaviour before in M4 to M6.
  
  Setting up the wireless Network on this laptop in 11.3 M6 was finicky. I disabled kwallet, but there were still problems. I tried using knetwork manager to setup our wireless but it did not work. I did set it to automatically connect. Then I killed knetwork manager, and then restarted knetwork manager, and I then I had a wireless connection. A nice solid connection at that. I could not get knetwork manager to work without this convoluted scheme. There were bug reports on 11.3 M6 on this (with work arounds) and I did not try those.
  
  Wireless on this laptop is an Intel Wireless 5300 AGN and once it is finally connected, its connection is far superior (IMHO) to previous openSUSE versions.
  
  Again Firefox immediately crashes when run, forcing me to use Konqueror as the web browser.

32-bit liveCD Experience:

• PC#3: booted with openSUSE-11.3 M7 32-bit KDE4 liveCD on my 32-bit AMD Athlon-2800 w/2GB (Asus A7N8X Deluxe motherboard) w/ PCI nVidia GeForce 8400GS graphics. Behaviour identical to what I saw on M6. PC booted using the Noveau graphic driver at maximum expected resolution (1920x1200). Sound worked. Wired internet worked. As anticipated, special desktop effects with the Noveau driver did not work on this hardware.
  .
• PC#4: I have not tested this yet. This is my wifes 32-bit AMD Sempon-2600 w/1GB (Epox EP-8K7A motherboard) w/AGP ATI RV280 (Radeon-9200Pro) graphics, but I don't have access yet. It worked okay on 11.3 M6 so I have high hopes for M7
  .
• PC#5: this is my sandbox PC, an old 32-bit AMD Athlon-1100 w/1GB (MSI KT3 Ultra motherboard) w/AGP nVidia GeForce FX5200 graphics and it had the same hiccups with M7 that I saw previous on M6 with the 32-bit openSUSE-11.3 KDE4 liveCD. It would not boot in any of the 800x600, 10247x768 nor vesa mode, each time hanging up when trying to run X (presumably the nouveau driver failing ? ) . I then booted to safe Settings, only to watch that 'hang' after a clock setting (same behaviour as M6):
  

  [39.456766] rtc0: alrms up to one day, 114 bytes nvram

  and as per M6 by pressing < ctrl-c> it restarted / continued its boot and eventually booted to X at a low 1024x768 resolution. That turned out to be the nv graphic driver. Fonts were bad on this boot (but not as bad as I rememberd M6). Sound did NOT initially work (unlike M6) and what was interesting was it put my USB webcam (which has only a mic) as default. But sound is not an issue as I can retune this in YaST and this PC has multiple sound cards which is difficult for any automatic configuration program to figure out. Wired Internet worked.
  .
  I plan to install M7 on this PC later (possibly this weekend).
  .
• PC#6 - This is my 32-bit Fujitsu-Simens Amilo 7400M laptop w/1.256 GB w/Intel 1.5 celeron, and Intel i855 GM graphics. The i855GM causes MAJOR problems for all Linux versions with newer kernels, and thus far 11.3 milestone is no different - it has problems.
  
  This laptop is currently running openSUSE-11.1 with KDE-4.3.5. Running quite nicely I might add. I previously tested it with openSUSE-11.2 and the Intel driver did NOT like the 2.6.31 kernel in 11.2 , requiring the boot code acpi=OFF.
  
  I tried with openSUSE-11.3 M6 and obtained similar (albeith slightly worse) behaviour. M7 is worse than M6, in that thus far I can get it to boot to run level 3 but NOT run level 5. The "acpi=off" method does not work for me thus far in M7. In fact, thus far I can NOT get X to start. I suspect it may be possible if I install sax2 on this PC and try to configure the FBDEV or VESA driver.
  
  I previous documented my efforts with M4 and M6 here: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=593463 . I'll have to add an entry for M7.
  
  Research has indicated that ever since the 2.6.29 kernel (or so) the kernel has an interference with the Intel graphic driver (or visa versa dependent on one's perspective). A fix may have been found, and I tested a Ubuntu version with the 2.6.32 and a patch that worked. Still, I note this is NOT an openSUSE unique problem. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24789

Summary

Thus far, for my newer PCs, 11.3 M7 is positive. For my older PCs, it has problems due to

• nouveau driver does NOT like my older nVidia hardware
• kernel still does NOT like my older Intel i855GM graphics

11.3 Predictions

Based on this (and with my still having one PC left to test) I predict that for 11.3 GM in July (unless there are major changes between now and then) we will see:

• ATI/radeon users with legacy hardware noting this 11.3 release is superior to 11.2 and overall a better release (albeit not perfect).
• nVidia users with old hardware may be very upset, as the nouveau driver does not work well for them, and these users will be forced to boot in safe settings/fail safe, until they can configure the "nv" or "vesa" drivers better, and until they can install the proprietary nVidia driver (where I note there is NOT yet a proprietary legacy nVidia driver yet for the 2.6.34 kernel).
• nVidia users with relatively moderate-to-new graphic hardware will be ok with the nouveau graphic driver.
• Intel drivers will be a mixed lot. Those with the newer Intel hardware (that comes with i3 and i5) will be happier, as that hardware does NOT work well on 11.2. But users of older Intel graphics (such as in my Intel i855 GM) will continue to be dissatisfied.

Hence like all releases before, I predict 11.3 will get mixed reviews.

[consused]

I tested various PCs with 11.3 Milestone-7 build-0625. The experience in many respects was similar to that of Milestone-6, although I did encounter a new 64-bit bug with firefox. All the tests below were done with liveCDs...

...Again Firefox immediately crashes when run, forcing me to use Konqueror as the web browser.....

Although I upgraded with zypper from M6, I got the same 64bit Firefox bug and was forced to use Konqueror.

Good news is that at least the "unichrome" driver installed with no xorg.conf to support my (old) VIA graphics chip, with DR enabled, as it did with M6. Haven't tried XvMC for video yet.

Both "openchrome" and "chrome9" drivers failed loading by X system at startup, with same driver releases as M6 only available from OBS . Not surprising, and seems to be BAU with Milestones.

Akonadi reported some errors on KDE startup. Have seen similar with Kubuntu 10.04, although I didn't see any problems as a result of that. However on 11.3 M7, KDE's Kontact application fails to complete its startup and fails after invoking Akonadi which delivers DBUS and database errors. The errors are reported in a very long listing when Kontact is started from the commandline.

Did you try Kontact? (IIRC you don't use Kmail, so possibly not).

[oldcpu]

• PC#5: this is my sandbox PC, an old 32-bit AMD Athlon-1100 w/1GB (MSI KT3 Ultra motherboard) w/AGP nVidia GeForce FX5200 graphics and it had the same hiccups with M7 that I saw previous on M6 with the 32-bit openSUSE-11.3 KDE4 liveCD. It would not boot in any of the 800x600, 10247x768 nor vesa mode, each time hanging up when trying to run X (presumably the nouveau driver failing ? ) . I then booted to safe Settings, only to watch that 'hang' after a clock setting (same behaviour as M6):
  

  [39.456766] rtc0: alrms up to one day, 114 bytes nvram

  and as per M6 by pressing < ctrl-c> it restarted / continued its boot and eventually booted to X at a low 1024x768 resolution. That turned out to be the nv graphic driver. Fonts were bad on this boot (but not as bad as I rememberd M6). Sound did NOT initially work (unlike M6) and what was interesting was it put my USB webcam (which has only a mic) as default. But sound is not an issue as I can retune this in YaST and this PC has multiple sound cards which is difficult for any automatic configuration program to figure out. Wired Internet worked.
  .
  I plan to install M7 on this PC later (possibly this weekend).

I installed 11.3 M7 on this PC, but it was not easy. I suspect new users if they had identical hardware would be lost, and likely would do unkind things to any openSUSE-11.3 liveCD they procured.

As before (with M6) I could only install with SafeSettings. Previous 1024x768, 800x600, VESA and text mode installs all failed. After a successful safe settings install, the PC would boot ONLY to fail safe. Eventually I found it possible to get it do a normal boot to change this line in the /boot/grub/menu.lst (for the regular boot) :

kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.34-8-default root=/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3320620A_9QFAJR66-part6 apm=off acpi=off mce=off barrier=off ide=nodma idewait=50 i8042.nomux psmouse.proto=bare irqpoll pci=nommconf resume=/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3320620A_9QFAJR66-part3 splash=silent quiet showopts vga=0x317

to this line:

kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.34-8-default root=/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3320620A_9QFAJR66-part6 resume=/dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3320620A_9QFAJR66-part3 splash=silent quiet showopts vga=0x317 nomodeset

The regular boot had many extra codes (because this was a safe settings install) that would normally not be there. These many extra codes made it impossible to boot the PC to X, as one was always greeted with a black screen. It turns out as a minimum, the "nomodeset" boot code was needed, and there was a note in the 11.3 M7 release notes about that. Of course, HOW MANY new or beginner users read the release notes ?? Not many is the opinion I venture.

And I had to remove all the other needless boot codes from the menu.lst. At that point, it would boot as a normal boot.

So the PC could now boot to ONLY 1024x768 in a normal boot. But the graphic driver chosen (as a result of the "nomodeset" ) was the "nv" driver. The proper resolution for the "nv" driver is 1900x1200 with this graphic card/monitor combination. The 1024x768 is pathetic in comparison. In the past (on previous openSUSE versions) the "nv" driver supported that 1920x1200 resolution. So it IS possible. I also noted xrandr only gives options of LOWER resolutions. No option to select 1920x1200 (nor indeed any resolution higher than 1024x768). So I went to run the sax2 application to configure an xorg.conf to setup the higher resolution , and guess what ??

No sax2 application in 11.3 M7 !! Its been removed. Its gone. Its not on the DVD. Its not on the factory-snapshot repository. Its gone ! Its been removed. Only sax2-tools is left, and it is NOT adequate. IMHO unless there is a replacement configuration tool (that works) that complete removal of sax2 is a seriously bad move if it was done deliberately.

Now if one searches for sax2 in factory from here: Software.openSUSE.org one will find it. But how many new users know about that?

How is a user, who does not know of Software.openSUSE.org, and who does not want to use the proprietary nVidia driver (which by the way is NOT ready yet for the 2.6.34 kernel with this GeForce FX5200 nVidia hardware), supposed to configure their graphics beyond 1024x768 ??

Unless they are an xorg.conf hacker, they can't. The possibility is gone. And so will this user. They WILL BE GONE. GONE away from openSUSE to a distribution that DOES provide a wizard for configuring the graphics when the automatic xorg config fails.

So, how to lose openSUSE users and make openSUSE detractors? This is how !

I'm not impressed. I am disappointed.

Of course this won't stop me. I can grab sax2 by searching here: Software.openSUSE.org , .... I can easily install the proprietary video driver, and hopefully the "hack" (and it was a hack) that I used to boot X from run level 3 with the proprietary graphic driver will work.

And I will point new users here: Software.openSUSE.org, to get sax2. But that should NOT be necessary.

So I am very disappointed, and unless I am wrong (which is possible and it won't be the 1st time), and unless this deficiency is addressed, I predict many users of old nVidia hardware will storm way from openSUSE in droves, much like happened with openSUSE-10.1 with the software package management was bad. This is from my view a SERIOUS mistake.

IMHO it IS premature to drop sax2 completely without a replacement - the xorg automatic configuration is not there yet in terms of reliability.

[oldcpu]

Did you try Kontact? (IIRC you don't use Kmail, so possibly not).

No, I use thunderbird for mail. And I am only testing LXDE on my sandbox PC installs.

[Cloddy]

On 23/05/10 09:46, oldcpu wrote:
> - ATI/radeon users with legacy hardware noting this 11.3 release is
> superior to 11.2 and overall a better release (albeit not perfect).

I would have agreed with you at M6 but certainly not M7 on the evidence
of a clean install on my Radeon HD 2400 Pro. I installed from DVD and on
the preliminary boot, graphics looked OK. Firefox and Sea Monkey were
broken but you expect a few hiccups. I rebooted and then found graphics
was broken at the logon screen stage - just a snowy screen with a square
of slightly different-coloured snow marking the location of the mouse
cursor.

On another partition, I've updated gradually from M6 to M7 via Factory
and had no problems with graphics and Firefox doesn't crash. However,
I'm now having to set up my wireless connection every time I boot the
system.

Now to see if my nVidia machine makes a better fist of it. Couldn't do
worse - could it?

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks., UK.
E-mail: newsman AT scarlet HYPHEN jade DOT com

[consused]

On another partition, I've updated gradually from M6 to M7 via Factory and had no problems with graphics and Firefox doesn't crash.

You didn't say whether 64bit or 32bit?

So far only reports of this Firefox problem have come from 64bit systems.

[caf4926]

32 bit dup from M6 > M7

Only bug I have so far is Evince, it crashes out.

Otherwise it's solid. I don't have the issues reported here like FFox..

I have added the factory repos for kde and gnome though as well as Packman.

[Cloddy]

On 23/05/10 14:37, Graham P Davis wrote:
> Now to see if my nVidia machine makes a better fist of it. Couldn't do
> worse - could it?

Graphics OK, so that's an improvement but the sound is almost
non-existent. It's found two cards so I've got to check which one it's
[mis-]using and compare with 11.2 - as that works fine.

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks., UK.
E-mail: newsman AT scarlet HYPHEN jade DOT com

[Romanator]

To get Firefox working in Milestone 7. First, make a backup copy of .mozilla from either openSUSE 11.2 or openSUSE 11.3 Milestone 6.

Save it to usb drive or to another partition. Copy it back to your Milestone 7 home directory. Firefox will restart.


Good Luck!

Romanator

[oldcpu]

Of course this won't stop me. I can grab sax2 by searching here: Software.openSUSE.org , .... I can easily install the proprietary video driver, and hopefully the "hack" (and it was a hack) that I used to boot X from run level 3 with the proprietary graphic driver will work.

And I will point new users here: Software.openSUSE.org, to get sax2. But that should NOT be necessary.

Further to this, on this sandbox PC of mine (an old 32-bit AMD Athlon-1100 w/1GB (MSI KT3 Ultra motherboard) w/AGP nVidia GeForce FX5200 graphics) I took a look in more detail at Software.openSUSE.org to see if I could get sax2 and I did not like what I saw. So I decided to stop wasting my time on the "nv" driver, and I went ahead and installed the proprietary nVidia legacy 173.14.25 graphic driver "the hardway" (which is not hard). In doing this I booted to run level 3 without the "nomodeset" boot code. After running the proprietary driver ".run" file, I built the custom xorg.conf with the proprietary "nvidia-xconfig" tool. Restarted to run level-3, and then booted with "startx -- -ignoreABI". Since the 173.14.25 graphic driver is not yet ready for the 2.6.34 kernel ( ? ) , experience with earlier 11.3 milestone releases taught me this was necessary.

For some reason, this proprietary graphic driver install messes permissions on audio, and hence I had to add regular users to group audio to get sound functioning for regular users. (after which a complete log out of Linux was necessary for settings to be applied)

But once that was complete, I had 1920x1200 graphics, with sound, functioning. I changed the /boot/grub/menu.lst file, replacing "nomodeset" with "3".

I forgot to mention - I setup LXDE as the desktop. It works well.

So 11.3 M7 is running well, and that did not take me long, but I seriously doubt that a distro hopper, nor a new user, would be able to quickly do the above like I managed.