Who do newcomers give up on Linux?

[dragonbite]

Originally Posted by wakou

PS I don't have to install a buggy program in order to do what I need to do.

Yeah, installing Microsoft took care of that already!

But seriously, any purpose of that post other than to flame-bait. This is a good discussion on what shortcomings of why users give up on Linux.

So far I only see "screen resolution" and "radio" and the ambiguous "just works" as your reasons for giving up on Linux.

[wakou]

Yeah, installing Microsoft took care of that already!

But seriously, any purpose of that post other than to flame-bait. This is a good discussion on what shortcomings of why users give up on Linux.

So far I only see "screen resolution" and "radio" and the ambiguous "just works" as your reasons for giving up on Linux.

not flame-baiting at all Mr Dragon, I would not dream of such a thing, I am merely contributing to the thread, and sharing my experiences. This not the place for in-depth techy explanations, but:
I cannot listen to my beloved BBC radio in suse/firefox
Windows firefox, guess what, I CAN.
I play poker......
in openSuse I have to install Vbox, install windows into a VBOX then play my poker through a tiny letterbox, which runs like a slug, and whilst doing so hogs 1/2 of my RAM, and most of my CPU

This is NOT I know, the fault of Linux, but this thread is not entitled "What is wrong with linux" but "Why do newcomers give up" I am not new to openSuse having used it as my main OS for over a year.

[blnl]

I'm a newcomer to Linux and I'm still not giving up. For the past 8 months, since I'm using Linux, I have learned the following:

My frustration with Linux is comparable to the one with Windows, but the reasons for the frustration are totally different.
When Windows application is not working, often it can't be fixed at all.
When Linux application is not working, it can be fixed but I don't know how.
So in both cases I'm screwed.

Only, I hope that one day I'll have enough Linux knowledge to fix anything that doesn't work.

Still there is one Windows frustration that will never make me look back. That is, whenever you want to upgrade your OS (for example XP to Vista), you must also buy a new hardware.
With Linux I can happily continue using my old hardware, without performance penalty.

Boris

[hendersj]

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:16:01 +0000, wakou wrote:

> but: I cannot listen to my
> beloved BBC radio in suse/firefox Windows firefox, guess what, I CAN.

FWIW, my wife listens to the Radio6 feed on her openSUSE 11.1 laptop
pretty constantly. The trick was to not use realplayer (which caused
problems) or the mplayer plugin (which crashes, I need to report that
bug), but either the totem or vlc plugin seem to work just fine for that.

But I can understand the frustration of something like that not "just
working". I was somewhat surprised when mplayerplug-in had its problems,
because on her older laptop, it worked fine.

Jim

--
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Moderator

[cybertaz]

Originally Posted by dragonbite

I was in our town library yesterday and there is a computer in the kids section for the library catalog.

When I first noticed they were using Linux, it was Ubuntu installed on it. This time around, it is openSUSE. Perhaps they were not so happy with Ubuntu's bootup-into-root issue? I dunno.

Anyway, most kids will never noticed that they are running anything other than a browser to get into the Library card catalog, but still... it's exposure!

Most children can move between the different OSes quite nicely. My 5 year old uses XP, Vista (Xp=his old pc for educational games, Vista=my wifes PC, he likes the cake game in Vista) and my linux box. He actually gets upset sometimes because one of his games doesn't play on my linux box!

What surprised me was how easily he moves around the OSes. He knows the different menus and where his stuff is. He can move around XP almost as well as my wife does. He changes his wallpaper every month or so (just like I do), he even gets in and changes his user picture, once he found that he had to make sure he showed me how to do it. He isn't afraid to mess things up, and most people aren't.

I think the majority of people don't like linux because it is different. We as people are creatures of habit, and linux doesn't fit the habit we are used to (Windows). If more people would look at linux and understand that it is a CHANGE and something different, focus on the usability and stability not the fact that it is not windows.

[DigiTan]

Like blnl, I've been using openSUSE and Linux in general for under a year.

My big hangup isn't so much the OS itself, but the "pusher mentality" some of us newbs are approached with. This of course doesn't apply to everybody, but it seems there's a nearly universal urge to hype Linux is a super easy, drop-in-replacement for Windows, regardless of computer literacy.

In the days leading up to my first Live CD download, many well-meaning Linux fans tried to "sell" me their distros on the pretexts that I'd never have to touch Grub, Xorg, Initrd, or even shell commands to get my system 100% squared away. I'm sure it works out that way sometimes. But I think we're setting newcomers up for huge falls when suggesting there's no hurdles. Hence, some are quitting well before they can even get acclimated.

Luckily this forum seems to favor the more straight-talk approach. But I see it worth mentioning. Like I said, this only applies to a small slice of the community, and those people know who they are.

[oldcpu]

Originally Posted by DigiTan

My big hangup isn't so much the OS itself, but the "pusher mentality" some of us newbs are approached with. This of course doesn't apply to everybody, but it seems there's a nearly universal urge to hype Linux is a super easy, drop-in-replacement for Windows, regardless of computer literacy.

I think there is also selective listening at play here as well. Many new users are told Linux will install on most PC hardware (and in fact runs on more hardware types than Windoze) but that one must check for their own hardware. New users tend to ignore (selectively listen/ignore) that very important qualification about checking first.

I typically spend a lot of time hand picking my hardware to ensure it not only works with Linux, but that it "just works" easily with Linux. There is a difference there, a difference that many new users, average users, and even experienced users can over look. Something can work with Linux, but be a major PITA to setup. Or something can work real easy. A lot of homework and some careful hardware selection pays enormous dividends.

I often note things "just work" for me on Linux, but as noted, I also take the time and choose carefully, when buying hardware to ensure that "justs work" characteristic, will apply. If one does not do that, then it can be difficult in Linux to get hardware working with Linux. Still, that should be no surprise (although strangely to me, it often is) to users, ... the Mac is no different in that respect, ... i.e. show me a Mac user who does not first check for Mac compatibility when buying hardware, and I'll show you a very unhappy Mac user. ... The big advantage Mac's have in this regard is most manufacturer's will list Mac compatibility (and maybe provide limited Mac support) but they will not list Linux compatibility, nor will they provide Linux support.

Many new users do NO checks for Linux compatiblity. They just take existing PC that has Windoze, and install Linux on it, and then complain that it doesn't work well. They complain their hardware is hard to configure. They complain Linux (with their hardware) is not user friendly. ... And they justify their approach of using such not-friendly hardware (with Linux) because it was hardware they already purchased. ... well, why not get smart and buy hardware that will work easily? If one wants to use existing hardware where Linux was not a consideration in the hardware initial purchase, then one has to pay a price of a LOT of PITA and effort.

Why the surprise it does NOT work easily when inadequate home work was done in advance to check for compatibility ? ...

Trying installing Mac OS/X on the same hardware. ... What , it won't install ? No surprise.

Will Linux install, YES but one HAS to be prepared for a tough road.

The thing is, selective listening applies here, and the average Windoze user has NO IDEA as to how tough the tough road might be.

One thing I think we could do better, in addition to making Hardware Compatibility Lists for openSUSE Linux (which unfortunately get no where near the support/input from users running openSUSE) is also assign some sort of category as to "ease of use". Hopefully that would help some of the problems/common-misperceptions.

[MattBClassic]

Originally Posted by oldcpu

I think there is also selective listening at play here as well.


Many new users do NO checks for Linux compatibility(sic) ...



One thing I think we could do better, in addition to making Hardware Compatibility Lists for openSUSE Linux (which unfortunately get no where near the support/input from users running openSUSE) is also assign some sort of category as to "ease of use". Hopefully that would help some of the problems/common-misperceptions.

I 100% agree with oldcpu on his post. It almost seems that the "it works on Windows" is the stock answer for hardware incompatibility problems. Why duh! the hardware manufacturers make sure (in most cases) that it does. I would not buy a womens shoe to fit my foot though I imagine some would.

As to the HCL it can help but it tends to be a moving target since the hardware that worked yesterday is not the same hardware shipped by the manufacture today, though named the same, the chipsets are differing. You are almost better to research Companies for whether they are known to supply Linux compatibility than individual components. Generally this will mean buying known brands and good quality. Though you can sometimes get amazing results from off names and generics, this is a testament to how good Linux is.

[Confuseling]

Originally Posted by DigiTan

Like blnl, I've been using openSUSE and Linux in general for under a year.

My big hangup isn't so much the OS itself, but the "pusher mentality" some of us newbs are approached with. This of course doesn't apply to everybody, but it seems there's a nearly universal urge to hype Linux is a super easy, drop-in-replacement for Windows, regardless of computer literacy.

In the days leading up to my first Live CD download, many well-meaning Linux fans tried to "sell" me their distros on the pretexts that I'd never have to touch Grub, Xorg, Initrd, or even shell commands to get my system 100% squared away. I'm sure it works out that way sometimes. But I think we're setting newcomers up for huge falls when suggesting there's no hurdles. Hence, some are quitting well before they can even get acclimated.

Luckily this forum seems to favor the more straight-talk approach. But I see it worth mentioning. Like I said, this only applies to a small slice of the community, and those people know who they are.

Absolutely true. Linux is a cult, which is unfortunate, because it's also a really good operating system.

Separating the two can be irksome, but the culture of this forum is exceptional in that regard. "Distro X is the best distro and we're all *really* cool for using it" threads bore me to tears, and this is one of the few forums that I've seen people so happy to say "You'd probably be better off using distro Y", or even Windows.

SUSE is great, but linux is about variety, and even so it isn't for everyone. I don't see why anyone needs to push it if they actually believe in the superiority of the model - I guess it's just the young 'uns and some of the newcomers (not meant disparagingly - I'm new to this as well), who are desperately trying to rationalise the amount of time they're spending banging their heads on their keyboards.

Originally Posted by MattBClassic

... I would not buy a womens shoe to fit my foot though I imagine some would.
...

You keep telling yourself that Matt. I've still got the photos. Which reminds me, where's this month's cheque?

[scajjr2]

Though I still have open SUSE 11.1 on my pc I rarely boot into it anymore. I have to say for what we use our 4 computers for Windows 7 works easier (mainly networking).

The Homegroup network feature really simplifies setting up a home network for file and media sharing. And my fiance didn't want to deal with knowing anything about linux and I didn't want to spend my time at night playing linux guy for her. She's more comfortable with Win 7, so we've decided to stay with Windows.


Sam