Who do newcomers give up on Linux?

[scajjr2]

Originally Posted by hendersj

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:06:02 +0000, scajjr2 wrote:

> When a distro says it just works

It does when you use hardware that is actually supported.

My 110v electric razor "just works" as long as I plug it into a 110v
outlet. If I travel to Europe and plug it into a 220v outlet (using an
adapter), should I blame Norelco if the razor doesn't "just work" but
instead experiences some trouble?

Jim

I think the message in my original post has been misinterpeted. What I was commenting on was how openSUSE didn't install well on an older laptop so I decided to try Kubuntu on it to compare and because Ubuntu (and by association Kubuntu) are touted as "it just works". So as Kubuntu didn't just work I was commenting on how people may give up on Linux in general (not just openSUSE)when a distro that is supposed to "just work" didn't. I was not implying that openSUSE "just works". Sorry if my original message intent wasn't spelled out the way I intended.

Sam

[kimo9909]

I haven't given up but my limited knowledge of Linux and its underpinning make it difficult considering that most of my experience is with Windows. That said, I feel that three big reason many give up sooner than they should concerns the following:

1. Windows coddles its users to the point that the complexity isn't really apparent.
2. The Windows migrants are not truly "tinkerers" at heart. You have to have a need to "know" why something works before trying Linux as it is a lot of trial and error...not to mention research.
3. Finally, some things don't just "work" as simple as it does with Windows. I am not saying core functionality. As an example, there are certain video drivers that are not available to Linux but almost all drivers are available for Windows. It it those "little" things that the coddled Windows users cannot get past. Few have a pioneering spirit and that is probably one of the biggest differences between a Windows user and a Linux user, regardless of the distro!

</My2Cents>
Regards,
Kimo9909

[leecheroflife]

TBH I think the main problem does lie with people not knowing what it is they really want from an OS, theyre used to windows and what it does wheras jumping to linux opens up too many possibilities for them, things they haven't considered before.

And lets face it, humans fear change

[kimo9909]

Originally Posted by natural_pilot

scajjr2 wrote:
> ...it doesn't "just work" as it's advertised...When a distro says
> it just works but wireless doesn't...

hmmm, if _any_ user of openSUSE writes "it just works" that is not
nearly the same thing as Novell or "the openSUSE community" saying
it....is it?

let google report:

"Your search - site:novell.com "openSUSE it just works" - did not
match any documents."

"Your search - site:novell.com "opensuse just works" - did not match
any documents."


the phrase IS found *once* in en.opensuse.org (that is, outside the
forum of users--who can say whatever they want...including Windows
just works, ha!), as a PROPOSED, and not adopted, slogan..

oh yes, "openSUSE just works" *is* found on the net, but none of those
(as far as i can find are official promises from either Novell or "the
openSUSE community" (you can look yourself, google only found six "it
just works" and 17 "just works")

so, i don't think that promise was made to you...well, maybe you have
a copy of a Novell or "openSUSE community" paid advertisement, if so,
please scan and upload it so we can all see..

on the other hand, some folks still believe Micro$oft when they say
"faster and safer" [google sayz: 467 pages from microsoft.com for
"faster and safer"]

ymmv

--
.~.
/V\
/( )\ natural_pilot
^^-^^

Originally Posted by hendersj

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:06:02 +0000, scajjr2 wrote:

> When a distro says it just works

It does when you use hardware that is actually supported.

My 110v electric razor "just works" as long as I plug it into a 110v
outlet. If I travel to Europe and plug it into a 220v outlet (using an
adapter), should I blame Norelco if the razor doesn't "just work" but
instead experiences some trouble?

Jim

I believe that there is a misunderstanding here. I am not downing Linux, in fact I believe that people are to coddled or spoiled by Windows to understand just how awesome Linux can be.

To put my actual point into perspective please read this article: Linux vs. Windows Hardware Support: The Truth

Regards,
Kimo9909

[atraller47]

Coming back to the originating post of this thread, I agree with all of the number and then add one more: Maybe it is all the forum posts stating how Windows is of the devil and anyone that is still using it is underachieving in life.

I'm just thankful for the Global Moderators on here that offer just the right help when you ask a question without slapping the user in the face with a 2x4 because the word WINDOWS is mentioned.

[dragonbite]

Nothing will be "Just Works". How many forum postings in different locations bemoan this doesn't work in Linux or that didn't work in Windows or the other thing doesn't work in OS X..?

Microsoft does it by controlling market share and offering "Certified for Windows ???" or "Designed For .." certification they can put on their cases and packaging.

They away with being lazy because of their market share so far, but still... I've heard one person saying that a lot of the Vista fiasco was due to nVidia, not Microsoft.

Apple does this by controlling what hardware will run with OS X.

Linux has had to cater to a wider range of hardware than Microsoft OR Apple AND has to work without the benefit of hardware vendor's assistance. So Linux is already fighting an uphill battle and considering, they have done a D**N GOOD JOB!!

[PurpleRainbow]

Originally Posted by caf4926

OK. Enough already. I know it's Chit-Chat but you guy's are loosing the plot.
@natural_pilot: I agree "the fact is that many folks simply lack the mental capacity, attitude,
or perseverance needed to stick to openSUSE/Linux long enough to
remedy their ignorance"

Though actually: Install/Boot/Login is not the only location you will be able to confirm your findings. You are lucky if they have the intellectual capacity to understand the true nature of their problem in order to identify the correct forum section. The result being, posts for help which ought to be in this section - can in fact end up just about anywhere.

Does this I wonder mean, that a large majority would like to see Linux performing like windows. We often hear the phrase "In windows it just works". Actually of course that's not strictly true. And I'm darn sure I don't want Linux to be like windows, one of my pet hates of windows is that it does not allow the user to think for themselves (treats us all like idiots). Umm... No thanks. I'm pretty sure I have a brain and I'd rather not have Redmond thinking for me.
Perhaps Linux assumes you do have a brain and there the problem begins - because maybe the majority just don't or at least they have been brainwashed by Redmond into not using it.

Let's encourage brain freedom. Use Linux and free your brain. Use it or loose it as the saying goes.

I'm a newbie who is not giving up on Linux. I like to think I have a brain and can use it. I've been looking through the forums to find answers to questions and it's quite true, I don't really know where to ask or how to ask. For example, I can't get one click install to work these days, through Yast i'm unable to install software, is this because of maintenance (yes, I've read that announcement) or some problem on my computer that as an idiot user I've caused? I'll continue searching for information I can actually comprehend and who knows, in the process may actually learn something. Will I post my idiot questions and insult intelligent people who have better things to do with their time? I'm not quite that desperate yet.

I'm totally convinced Linux systems are the best. I do not care to use an MS OS. Still, it is a temptation.

I've only read about 1/2 of this thread so don't know what follows. I do know there are posts that don't imply that anyone having difficulties is a total brain dead idiot, and for those posts I'm grateful. Documentation, actual usable, readable documentation would help. If I could figure out how to deal with the problems I have I'd gladly volunteer to help others who don't speak geek.

I don't intend for this to sound insulting or argumentative. What I do want is to point out that there are those of us who want to learn and get extremely frustrated trying. Now back to googling.....

[leecheroflife]

Well if your having a problem with 1click install go into more detail about it, saying it doesnt work is a given, the more info that is known the easier a problem is to fix =]

[hendersj]

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:26:01 +0000, scajjr2 wrote:

> I
> decided to try Kubuntu on it to compare and because Ubuntu (and by
> association Kubuntu) are touted as "it just works". So as Kubuntu didn't
> just work I was commenting on how people may give up on Linux in general
> (not just openSUSE)when a distro that is supposed to "just work" didn't.
> I was not implying that openSUSE "just works". Sorry if my original
> message intent wasn't spelled out the way I intended.

No, I understood what you meant, I was just saying "it just works"
depends a lot on whether or not the hardware you're running is actually
supported. If it is, it just works (regardless of distro), but if it's
not, you're going to fight with it. That's not a distro-specific thing,
that's a Linux thing.

Jim

[hendersj]

On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:06:07 +0000, kimo9909 wrote:

> I believe that there is a misunderstanding here. I am not downing
> Linux, in fact I believe that people are to coddled or spoiled by
> Windows to understand just how awesome Linux can be.

That makes sense, but I'd point out that "downing" is something you do to
NetWare, not Linux. In Linux it's "halt" or "init 0". ;-)

Jim