Who do newcomers give up on Linux?

[jessenave]

I'm a windows user who has been trying to covert to Linux for over a year now. Though I'm not a programmer, I consider myself fairly competent with a computer. I have tried many distros and had to reinstall my windows OS many times as a result. I find it difficult to find tutorials for the absolute Linux beginner. I am currently trying to configure my network in Opensuse 11.1. I have been working at this simple task for two days without result. I still cannot access the internet from Opensuse. There are plenty of windows tuts that start you out from the very beginning (at the start button) and talk you in from there. Every Linux tut I've found assumes that I know how to open a Root console. I have sworn off Linux several times, but I keep coming back where most windows users would not.

[Knurpht]

Originally Posted by jessenave

I'm a windows user who has been trying to covert to Linux for over a year now. Though I'm not a programmer, I consider myself fairly competent with a computer. I have tried many distros and had to reinstall my windows OS many times as a result. I find it difficult to find tutorials for the absolute Linux beginner. I am currently trying to configure my network in Opensuse 11.1. I have been working at this simple task for two days without result. I still cannot access the internet from Opensuse. There are plenty of windows tuts that start you out from the very beginning (at the start button) and talk you in from there. Every Linux tut I've found assumes that I know how to open a Root console. I have sworn off Linux several times, but I keep coming back where most windows users would not.

This is not quite fair. You consider yourself as fairly competent on computer matters. Here's the problem: these are not computer matters, but Windows matters. Believe me, it's my daily bread, I live from people not being able to connect to the internet. Windows people. Do a post in the Network section and we'll help you to get things working. If anything works good, better than in Windows, it's networking.

> I'm a windows user who has been trying to covert to Linux for over
> a year now. Though I'm not a programmer, I consider myself fairly
> competent with a computer. I have tried many distros and had to
> reinstall my windows OS many times as a result.

i'm not programmer either, and i have a hint for you:

do as i did, buy a new hard drive and REPLACE your windows hard drive
with it..

no windows reinstall needed, ever (actually, the drive i took out was
OS/2 Warp)...

want data off that Windows (or Warp) drive? shut down Linux, add the
protected drive back in as a SLAVE drive, learn how to mount it READ
ONLY (see man mount, it is EASY)..find your photos or email addresses
etc etc etc and use them..



> I find it difficult to find tutorials for the absolute Linux
> beginner.

start on page one of Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition
http://rute.2038bug.com/

when you get to page three (about) you will read:

"The ordering of the chapters is carefully designed to allow you to
read in sequence without missing anything. You should hence read from
beginning to end, in order that later chapters do not reference unseen
material. I have also packed in useful examples which you must
practice as you read. "

and, do NOT complain that it is "too long" or "too complicated" until
you have looked at all the stuff available for those other systems..

when you need more, have a look at http://tinyurl.com/r3wrcr/
oh, ok...go ahead and look at it now, there is one there named: he
"Easiest Linux Guide You’ll Ever Read" and another named: "Linux
Newbie Administrator Guide"

> I am currently trying to configure my network in Opensuse 11.1. I
> have been working at this simple task for two days without result.
> I still cannot access the internet from Opensuse.

have you looked at the list of how-tos: http://en.opensuse.org/HOWTOs

search that page for the word "network"..


> There are plenty of windows tuts that start you out from the very
> beginning (at the start button) and talk you in from there.

did you miss the "Official openSUSE 11.1 Start-Up guide" see:

http://tinyurl.com/5osylt

while there, have a look at "Accessing the Internet" in Chapter 4

> Every Linux tut I've found assumes that I know how to open a Root
> console.

and, do you know how to do that yet? if not, ask..

imo, the problem is NOT a lack of documentation but just the reverse:
too MUCH...and, so much that most users can't find _the_ documentation
they specificially need (they cant find how to attach to the net using
Red Hat 6.x and a 28.8 modem in 1997, but can't find squat on openSUSE
11.1 WITH KDE4.3 beta 2 in 2009....and, so they throw up their hands
and quit..

--
.~.
/V\
/( )\ natural_pilot
^^-^^

[69_rs_ss]

On 6/19/2009 9:06 AM, Knurpht wrote:
> jessenave;2001703 Wrote:
>> I'm a windows user who has been trying to covert to Linux for over a
>> year now. Though I'm not a programmer, I consider myself fairly
>> competent with a computer. I have tried many distros and had to
>> reinstall my windows OS many times as a result. I find it difficult to
>> find tutorials for the absolute Linux beginner. I am currently trying
>> to configure my network in Opensuse 11.1. I have been working at this
>> simple task for two days without result. I still cannot access the
>> internet from Opensuse. There are plenty of windows tuts that start you
>> out from the very beginning (at the start button) and talk you in from
>> there. Every Linux tut I've found assumes that I know how to open a
>> Root console. I have sworn off Linux several times, but I keep coming
>> back where most windows users would not.
>
> This is not quite fair. You consider yourself as fairly competent on
> computer matters. Here's the problem: these are not computer matters,
> but Windows matters. Believe me, it's my daily bread, I live from people
> not being able to connect to the internet. Windows people. Do a post in
> the Network section and we'll help you to get things working. If
> anything works good, better than in Windows, it's networking.
>
>
But is it fair since the normal end user knows Windows when it comes to
computers. If the majority equate windows matters to computer matters
then you have the reason right there why newcomers leave.

[weverjames]

well, I converted to linux more than 2 years now. I started with ubuntu, when I bought an ubuntu loaded dell. In fact, I found out about linux availability when I was about to buy a regular dell and I found there was an option different than windows.
Then I found distrowatch and the world of options (distros). Then my addiction/weakness started. I would be uninstalling and installing distro, testing to see which one fit me better.
After a while I have come to the conclusion that only 2 distro are ready to offer me the stability and business type of support you would expect from the OS that you are going to be relying on: Suse and ubuntu.
I like about ubuntu: simpler menu, faster boot, upgrades are rolling over (does not need to reinstall everything again if you want to upgrade to a newer version). The package management is faster and in general thinks are easier to find. Dislike about ubuntu: unstable, feel like you are using a "work in progress OS". Continous Mozilla Firefox freezing, render the experience frustrating. Maybe it is easier to find things cause it does not come loaded with multiple applications as suse linux (empty shell?). The brown team may be tolerated if they can keep everything uniform. However the starting screen is going to be black, then, brown and pop up windows yellow.

Now a I have come back to suse.
Pluses of suse: seems to be more stable. Although using the same version of firefox, it just work in suse. Green is nicer! Fonts are nicer. Frostwire is other application that in ubuntu just kept crashing. No problems in suse.
Weakness of opensuse:
-should adopt a rollover form of upgrade, as ubuntu. That for sure is a big saling point: free OS for the life of your pc!
-Should make a common control center instead of the current control center and yast. Make yast to include everything, so users just have to go to one application (yast!) to control their system. That would be an ubuntu killer!!!
-try to improve speed of package manager, with less steps and participation from the user. This w/o compromising stability.
- Should be a way to have video conference with other people.
This is what I miss about microsoft: Windows messenger. aMSN just don't do the job. I could understand that having video conference from linux with windows or mac may be problematic. But there should be an application to have decent, free video conference between 2 or more linux users.
Ekiga is complicated to set up and I am not sure that it even work. aMSN is not able to provide the service even for 2 users using its plataform/application. So, what? skype? who use that?

[jessenave]

I now have Opensuse up and running. I have installed Skype and Nvidia drivers via repositories. Thank you for the tutorial links. Though I did not get them until after I figured it out, I am still anxious to dive into them. I agree with you about there being too many tutorials, but that's what attracts me to Linux in the first place. Everyone can contribute. I hope that other Windows users read your post and skip a few of the obstacles that I faced. For those of you who want to move away from Windows, my best advice is to keep digging. The answers are out there.

[scajjr2]

Originally Posted by syampillai

This post doesn't belong to the Chit-Chat area. Post in the Install/Boot/Login area so that someone can help you.

Didn't post looking for help. More in the why folks may give up on Linux in general. When a distro says it just works but wireless doesn't and you need to be connected to the web to get it to work. If I hadn't had a wired card to put in the laptop Kubuntu wouldn't have been installed.

Sam

scajjr2 wrote:
> ...it doesn't "just work" as it's advertised...When a distro says
> it just works but wireless doesn't...

hmmm, if _any_ user of openSUSE writes "it just works" that is not
nearly the same thing as Novell or "the openSUSE community" saying
it....is it?

let google report:

"Your search - site:novell.com "openSUSE it just works" - did not
match any documents."

"Your search - site:novell.com "opensuse just works" - did not match
any documents."


the phrase IS found *once* in en.opensuse.org (that is, outside the
forum of users--who can say whatever they want...including Windows
just works, ha!), as a PROPOSED, and not adopted, slogan..

oh yes, "openSUSE just works" *is* found on the net, but none of those
(as far as i can find are official promises from either Novell or "the
openSUSE community" (you can look yourself, google only found six "it
just works" and 17 "just works")

so, i don't think that promise was made to you...well, maybe you have
a copy of a Novell or "openSUSE community" paid advertisement, if so,
please scan and upload it so we can all see..

on the other hand, some folks still believe Micro$oft when they say
"faster and safer" [google sayz: 467 pages from microsoft.com for
"faster and safer"]

ymmv

--
.~.
/V\
/( )\ natural_pilot
^^-^^

[hendersj]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:06:02 +0000, scajjr2 wrote:

> When a distro says it just works

It does when you use hardware that is actually supported.

My 110v electric razor "just works" as long as I plug it into a 110v
outlet. If I travel to Europe and plug it into a 220v outlet (using an
adapter), should I blame Norelco if the razor doesn't "just work" but
instead experiences some trouble?

Jim

[Xtigyro]

Originally Posted by oldcpu

Again, the bottom line - complain to the streaming web site. If they never test their streaming with Linux, then no matter how popular Linux becomes, the streaming still will not work. Those sites MUST test. And they don't.

It was done a week ago.
No reply from HP so far!

IF LINUX is more popular, than it will draw more of the manufacturer's attention.
So if you are using Linux, make it obvious to the other World.