Who do newcomers give up on Linux?

[syampillai]

The points I listed in my posts are from the questions asked in this forum by many newcomers.

I am not a Windo$ user and the last Windo$ I used was Windows95.

Since this is the "Chit Chat" group, let me tell you about something different:
There are over 6 billion human beings in this Earth and we all meet only a very few people on a daily basis. Just think about the organization you work or the place you live. You interact with only a handful of people around you. Some of them are closer to you than others. How come that? Why can't we get close to most of them? (I am not saying that there are not such people. I have seen people who can get close to anyone just in few minutes). I recently tried to compute the percentage of people I really interact with at my work place. It was just 11%.
I mean, I have to deal with a lot of people for getting work done etc., but, that is different. We don't feel like interacting with people more than certain level if their wavelength don't match with ours.

So, can I ignore those 89% people just because they cant think like me or their attitudes are different? The world's ecosystem needs all of them. World can not exists without all of them. If every one can develop software, we will have only developers everywhere and the world will collapse. We need the laundry man, we need the farmers, we need the factory workers...

Computer is a tool and the computer guys should think about how others can use it without learning more technical stuff. Most Windo$ users are just "users" and unfortunately, most of the so called "Windo$ computer experts" are just stupid people who memorized to do certain things in a monotonous way.

If we really see the percentage of people who are "windo$ experts" from the 6+ billion people, they are just a minority. But, this minority now dictates to the world - "how to use this tool called computers". The real end-users are not a problem. They generally don't come to forums like this. But, that doesn't mean they don't need help.

I have 1000+ users using openSUSE desktop. 90% of them don't know anything about OS etc., they just use my application and few other stuff like firefox browser, OpenOffice etc. They don't really need to know anything else.

I have trained few of them on how to install openSUSE on desktops. It was really a tough job to pick those guys from those 1000+ users. I had to write down steps for them - really like flowcharts - that explain stuff in more simple ways. Some of those stuff may look very obvious to all of us, but, we have to think from the point of view of others too.

I have read so many articles saying Windo$ != Linux. It is true and I 100% agree with that. But, we have to think about making Linux more easy for the end-users. I recently tried out PuppyLinux and I really liked the way it allows you to configure it. Simple step by step instructions with interactive GUI screens. However, I found that it is not very secure because the user has "root" access. But, if you ask some novice level guys to install openSUSE and PuppyLinux, he/she will definitely say that Puppy is easier. As a test, I did it too. And, I got that answer. But, they don't come know that it is less secure.

I had already said that I posted this after going through the most frequently asked questions in this forum. This is a good place to learn. I just wanted others to point out any missing items in my list so that it will be useful to openSUSE developers.

> If by here, you mean the forum that
> you drive by, I think you could struggle to find many like that here.

are you kidding? questions like that come up _every_ day!

--
natural_pilot

[oldcpu]

Originally Posted by syampillai

(6) Sound not working.
(7) Music not playing (codec issues).

As part of an effort to address specifics that cause new users to leave Linux, a number of us tend to focus on one area, and develop some knowledge in that "chosen" technical area in order to help new users. If that technical area happens to go together with a hobby, then all the better.

In my case, multimedia is a hobby, and while I am far from being an expert in multimedia (for I can think of a number of users on this forum who know way way more than I in sound/multimedia ), because multimedia is a "make or break" for me when it comes to an operating system, I decided that would be the main area where I would focus my help (as by doing so I also improved my own knowledge in an area that is a hobby of mine).

Hence I spend a lot of time helping users in basic sound issues.

I believe it is good to look at aspects that can cause users to decide Linux is not for them, and then decide if there is something positive that we can do to help improve the situation (such as contributing support in forums, IRC chat, testing/writing bug reports on new apps, ... etc ... ).

[consused]

Originally Posted by natural_pilot

> If by here, you mean the forum that
> you drive by, I think you could struggle to find many like that here.

are you kidding? questions like that come up _every_ day!

--
natural_pilot

This question you mean:

i put the Live CD in my computer and
tried to double click it but noting happened, it won't run or
nothin

No I wasn't kidding, you must be talking about some other place .

> No I wasn't kidding, you must be talking about some other place .

*hey* apparently you have *never* been in the forum named
Install/Boot/Login...at least the advanced search shows you have
*never* posted to that forum..

spend some time there and _then_ tell me you don't ever find some who
simply are not smart enough to run Linux *OR* Windows[tm]...heck, i
bet some still have 00:00:00 blinking on their ten year old VRC!!

check it out > http://forums.opensuse.org/install-boot-login/

--
natural_pilot

[caf4926]

Originally Posted by syampillai

Based on the questions asked in this forum and the way Winod$ migrants think, what do you think the main reasons? Let's list it here so that it may give all of us some hints on what needs to be done to improve the distro.
I can think of the following:
(1) [During installation] Windows partition + Linux partition confusion.
(2) [During installation] GRUB related issues.
(3) [During installation] Which desktop to select?
(4) Internet doesn't work - mainly wireless.
(5) Windo$ partition is not accessable. (Escpecially, NTFS mounted with not enough attributes set).
(6) Sound not working.
(7) Music not playing (codec issues).
(8) Graphics card issues.
I know that openSUSE developers are aware of this and they are trying their best but a check list is always a good idea.

Actually you make a good point here. I posted slightly in jest earlier - even though it may be true in some cases. I'm not sure I would pin down any one of the points you raise or indeed any other eg; Package Management/Updates. Several of your points of course assume the user is still using windows in conjunction with Linux, which is I suppose mostly the case.
I have a feeling once 11.2 is released some of the issues that arise now, will be less likely post 11.2 - Currently there is a significant desire by users to have all the 'Latest and Greatest' in respect of kde4. Post 11.2 I feel there will be far less incentive to venture out into uncharted waters. I mean of course, using repo's beyond the comprehension of most users. 11.2 will ship with a really good and impressive version of kde4 and most users should be content with what that provides, without adding repo's above and beyond the recommended (oss, non-oss, updates, packman). The adding of repo's to escape the rather shoddy 4.0 and even 4.1 has resulted in all manner of problems. If a users sticks with the 4 repo's just mentioned, using kde4 in 11.2 they should experience excellent results.

Certainly Booting/Grub is an issue too, and will continue to be so, as long as M$ and PC/Laptop vendors don't take multiple OS's into account. Though personally I never have issue here. Careful purchasing can eliminate wireless problems if you are able to plan ahead - not always the case I know.
NTFS is really not an issue.

It's already been said. But Linux is NOT windows. It's almost like learning a new language.

[Akoellh]

[10] Thought that they _must_ try linux because they repeatedly got infected under windows and heared that linux is "secure by default" ..... (but forgot that getting infections is > 99% PEBKAC i.e. klicking on anything that is too slow to run away at supersonic speed, so if they are too dumb to secure their windows they are also too dumb to use the power/control linux gives them).

To be fair, such users should not get administrative access to anything more complicated than a pocket calculator.

[consused]

natural_pilot
No intention of wasting my time adding credence to your insensitive, unsubstanciated, and somewhat elitist rants at/about users posting in the forum. It wouldn't surprise me if that is why you post under the alias of natural_pilot, someone_else, or whatever_your_sad_reason is for not posting in the forum under a registered user id.

> No intention of wasting *my* time adding credence to *your*
> insensitive, unsubstanciated, and somewhat elitist rants at/about users
> posting in the forum. It wouldn't surprise me if that is why you post
> under the alias of natural_pilot, someone_else, or
> whatever_your_sad_reason is for not posting in the forum under a
> registered user id.


first, it is not rant...instead, it is a fact that not all folks who
*try* to use Linux have the mental capacity to do so....just like not
all folks who *want* to be a brain surgeon can do so..

remember, this thread began by discussing why newcomers give up on
Linux, and i _added_ a reason: *some* give up simply because they just
can't figure it out...

that is just a fact, not a claim....and, it is certainly not a claim
which is insensitive, elitist or unprovable/unsubstantiated...nor is
it a claim you need to feel compelled to refute..

it seems to me that maybe you are reacting to something i did _not_
say--like, i didn't say is that there are long term forum members here
who are not smart enough to use either Linux or Windows..

however, there ARE folks who *try* to install openSUSE and fail, and
they sometimes post to one or another fora here asking for help...and,
through ignorance of Linux in general or openSUSE in particular they
cannot understand the answers they get well enough to be successful,
even _with_ competent help..

the fact is that many folks simply lack the mental capacity, attitude,
or perseverance needed to stick to openSUSE/Linux long enough to
remedy their ignorance and become a member of this community, rather
than a wanna-be that failed to become which they are..

[i assume all are aware that the terms "ignorance" and "stupidity" are
NOT the same..]

if you are unwilling to monitor the Install/Boot/Login section of
these fora that is your decision...but, if you think by NOT looking
there you have proven your point that no one ever fails to become a
long term member of this community because of inability, you are
mistaken..

second, the reason that i do not post via hhtp or with an open or
consistent identity are neither 'sad' nor any of your
concern...certainly, my reason is not so i can lay in "insensitive,
unsubstanciated, and somewhat elitist rants"..

--
natural_pilot

[caf4926]

OK. Enough already. I know it's Chit-Chat but you guy's are loosing the plot.
@natural_pilot: I agree "the fact is that many folks simply lack the mental capacity, attitude,
or perseverance needed to stick to openSUSE/Linux long enough to
remedy their ignorance"

Though actually: Install/Boot/Login is not the only location you will be able to confirm your findings. You are lucky if they have the intellectual capacity to understand the true nature of their problem in order to identify the correct forum section. The result being, posts for help which ought to be in this section - can in fact end up just about anywhere.

Does this I wonder mean, that a large majority would like to see Linux performing like windows. We often hear the phrase "In windows it just works". Actually of course that's not strictly true. And I'm darn sure I don't want Linux to be like windows, one of my pet hates of windows is that it does not allow the user to think for themselves (treats us all like idiots). Umm... No thanks. I'm pretty sure I have a brain and I'd rather not have Redmond thinking for me.
Perhaps Linux assumes you do have a brain and there the problem begins - because maybe the majority just don't or at least they have been brainwashed by Redmond into not using it.

Let's encourage brain freedom. Use Linux and free your brain. Use it or loose it as the saying goes.