Let's invade Ubuntu Forums!!!!!

[oldcpu]

From a user perspective (not as a moderator), based on what I read as being the reasons to "invade" the Ubuntu Forums, I would say this is a really really bad idea. As a moderator, I think it even a worse idea ... much worse....

I used to visit the Ubuntu IRC chat channel, mainly to learn about their 'bot. On occasion I would try help the Ubuntu users.

I've tried to help many Ubuntu users with their sound on the IRC #alsa channel.

When trying to help users with their technical problems, I use search engines extensively, and often I end up in a Ubuntu forum. I've picked up many solutions applicable to openSUSE from a Ubuntu expert on a Ubuntu forum. Yes, I had to wade thru many bad ideas, but the "gems" did shine thru.

From my perspective, Ubuntu has done a lot for Linux as a whole. They have attracted many users to Linux, and they have convinced a number of computer hardware suppliers to include Ubuntu Linux as an OEM product, against a very competitive Microsoft. That speaks volumes there. A side benefit to all Linux distributions is these computer hardware suppliers are slightly more receptively to Linux questions.

If one wishes to visit the Ubuntu forums, to help contribute to Ubuntu development, then I am ALL FOR IT. But if one joins a Ubuntu forum to push openSUSE or bash Ubuntu, then I think it is incredibly silly.

Linux is linux, and the distributions should stick together and support each other. There are better ways of having "a little fun".

[viperskunk]

Actually, on the contrary, life is really really short. It may seem long to you because of the way a human perceives things but compared to other things in the Universe, a human life is just a picosecond, if not less. Also there's a high degree of uncertainty in life, hence the saying: you never know when and/or from what you will die.

Sob, sob!

[viperskunk]

Originally Posted by oldcpu

From a user perspective (not as a moderator), based on what I read as being the reasons to "invade" the Ubuntu Forums, I would say this is a really really bad idea. As a moderator, I think it even a worse idea ... much worse....

I used to visit the Ubuntu IRC chat channel, mainly to learn about their 'bot. On occasion I would try help the Ubuntu users.

I've tried to help many Ubuntu users with their sound on the IRC #alsa channel.

When trying to help users with their technical problems, I use search engines extensively, and often I end up in a Ubuntu forum. I've picked up many solutions applicable to openSUSE from a Ubuntu expert on a Ubuntu forum. Yes, I had to wade thru many bad ideas, but the "gems" did shine thru.

From my perspective, Ubuntu has done a lot for Linux as a whole. They have attracted many users to Linux, and they have convinced a number of computer hardware suppliers to include Ubuntu Linux as an OEM product, against a very competitive Microsoft. That speaks volumes there. A side benefit to all Linux distributions is these computer hardware suppliers are slightly more receptively to Linux questions.

If one wishes to visit the Ubuntu forums, to help contribute to Ubuntu development, then I am ALL FOR IT. But if one joins a Ubuntu forum to push openSUSE or bash Ubuntu, then I think it is incredibly silly.

Linux is linux, and the distributions should stick together and support each other. There are better ways of having "a little fun".

oldcpu,(on a serious note...enough of the 'fun' now )
i wholly agree with you, when you say ubuntu has contributed a lot to the popularity of linux. it is a great marketing beast.
however, i have doubts as to the extent of ubuntu's contributions to linux itself. i mean, the kernel, new technology and all that.
in fact, i don't remember where, but i am sure you have come across the same article, which discussed how much (percentage) contribution to the kernel came from ubuntu. while red hat and novell led the table with more than 50% patches, ubuntu was less than 1%. i mean, while other distros seem to be doing all the hard work, testing, trying out new stuff, ubuntu just seems to be reaping the benefits of other distros' efforts. (they haven't even included openoffice 3 in Ibex, while fedora and opensuse are testing it out).

i mean, while fedora and opensuse seem to be doing the hard work, testing, and being brave trying out new stuff all the time and all that. but ubuntu, to the normal eye, seems to just be reaping the benefits of other distros' efforts. they just include the latest stable package. (they haven't even included openoffice 3 in Ibex....while fedora dn opensuse are testing it out). i mean it is unfair to distros like opensuse and fedora. on the ubuntu forums, these distros are bad-mouthed all time..calling fedora and opensuse unstable, (because they are too bleeding edge etc.) and ubuntu reaps the rewards of having a user base that believes it to be a "more stable" and "user friendly" distro.
i mean, ubuntu, all said and done is jazzed up debian. i have an immense amount of respect for (if one can have an immense amount of respect for a distro) Debian. but anyone can jazz up a distro. debian's contribution to linux per se as compared to ubuntu's is huge.

what has ubuntu done except amass a huge user base (and its subsequent benefits as seen in the forum documentation etc.)through marketing initiatives of Canonical?
i understand, that even this gathering of people is a huge contribution to linux in the market.
but i am talking about linux per se here.

maybe unintentionally, but you have touched upon an issue here, that i have had a strong feeling toward for some time now. and i thank you for it.

[viperskunk]

i mean, it is unfair to distros like opensuse and fedora.
on ubuntu forums these distros get bad-mouthed all the time (calling them too unstable in their efforts to be too bleeding edge), while ubuntu enjoys the increase in user base based on their assumption that ubuntu is necessarily stable.
i mean, where does this 'stability' come from? from someone's testing, somewhere, right?
who does that for ubuntu? certainly not ubuntu?
and it just seems to be reaping the rewards.

i apologise if i have touched a nerve here, but oldcpu, you certainly tickled mine.

[Spyhawk]

Off Topic :

Welcome to our newest member, SuSe_killed_the_buntu

[dragonbite]

Dude. I'm already doing my part.

If you haven't noticed me (which is no surprise) I often provide the Ubuntu point of view in the openSUSE forums and I provide the openSUSE point of view in the Ubuntu forums. I'm still just getting into the Fedora forums

OpenSUSE is a good distribution, but it is not for everybody. That is why Ubuntu is enjoying such popularity.

One area that gets people hung up on between openSUSE and Ubuntu is that openSUSE usually refers to the installation DVD which includes picking your packages during installation. Ubuntu refers to the LiveCD which when installed drops you into a working installation with a smart collection of (usually) popular applications (OpenOffice, Gimp, Firefox, etc.).

For the newbie or people that don't want to think about it, the LiveCD is preferred because unless you are familiar with what you want, the idea of picking what applications to install sounds daunting even with the package groups. And if you are new to Linux in general you are already fighting to understand what Pidgin and Kopete are! Let alone what is the difference between Koffice, OpenOffice and GnomeOffice and Abiword and Gnumeric! Won't even go into the media players or proprietary items like Flash and Acrobat

Yes, openSUSE has a Live CD, but it isn't promoted as well. Most people associate installing SUSE, Fedora and Red Hat/CentOS as needing a DVD.

This isn't a bad thing though. Like I said it is daunting for the newbie, but for somebody experienced or whats to "do more" then this installation method is much preferred. Also for people without internet access or slow (dial-up) internet access so the entire repositories are available right there!

"Invading the forums" will do nothing any better than when Mark Shuttleworth sent the letter to the SUSE developers when the Novell-Microsoft deal was announced.

Speaking of which, the hardest thing to argue about with Ubuntu users is the Microsoft-Novell deal. If anybody has some advice on debunking the perception of it being all negative, please PM me so I have some ammo. The EULA has been my last sticky point to try and defeat.

[beli0135]

Viper, you better take advice of majority of people that responded to you and drop the issue. Also, I recommend you re-read the post of Oldcpu. Wisdom is gained by expirience

However, if you still have in mind that you should convert some 'buntu user to openSUSE, I suggest you do 'invade' ubuntu forums and IRC channels and try to help as many people as you can in solving problems.
Linux is Linux and things are very very very similar.

Keep in mind that we use openSUSE because we explored distros and happened that WE LIKED openSUSE, not because someone convinced us, converted us, etc.

[GofBorg]

Fail

[GofBorg]

FYI, It's well known that Novell could not market themselves
out of a paper bag.

[cjcox]

On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 11:46 +0000, viperskunk wrote:
> Okay so OpenSuSE 11.0/11.1 is better than Ubuntu 8.10.
> Agreed?
> Agreed.

I won't say that. There are some fundamental differences
between Ubuntu and openSUSE. Some of it isn't all that bad.

I'd rather live with my Ubuntu friends than try to "bug" them
into moving to openSUSE. I do have friends that went from
Ubuntu to openSUSE, but possibly MORE that went from openSUSE
to Ubuntu.

....
> so here is what i suggest.
> let us invade their forums!

Uh... no...

....
> i am sure people will switch, even if the switch is slow at first.

If they get frustrated with Ubuntu (and there's plenty that CAN
frustrate them), then let's let them try openSUSE on their own
and make up their own mind.

>
> this is not a war.

No... so let's not try to make it into one... ok?

> it is just trying to assert that green is a more ubiquitous colour in
> nature than brown.

I like brown... and sometimes I get sick of the green...