define pre-release software

should those who are updating every day from the KDE factory repo
cease cluttering up all the normal forums and instead put their
moanings about what is broken _today_ into the pre-release/beta forum?

i mean, to me, if it is not part of the community RELEASED version it
is by definition pre-release software..

so, what is 'released' now, openSUSE 11.1, with KDE4.1 and . . .

could we get a clear definition of pre-release software?

like, is Chrome 'released'?

--
platinum

[Confuseling]

In principle, you're right...

But personally, I'd say this one falls firmly onto the lap of KDE. If they hadn't decided to call their beta (4.1) a general release, SUSE wouldn't have felt forced to stick it in 11.1, and we wouldn't be in this mess.

What proportion of KDE 11.1 users do you reckon are still running 4.1? Probably forum users are an unrepresentative sample, but I'd still say it's low...

Extenuating circumstance, for the forum, and for the users. Still might make sense to have a clarification from the staff. Then again, might not.

[caf4926]

We don't need to be overly pedantic about this. If a user comes here with a running 11.1 install, he doesn't expect unhelpful argumentation about such matters. I'm running 4.3.1 of kde, but I don't consider it a pre-release beta OS because of that. kde4.3.1 is a stable release from kde and the factory repo I use is, and I quote: KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSUSE_11.1/

caf4926 wrote:
> the factory repo I use is, and I quote:
> KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/*openSUSE_11.1*/


i'm not fighting, just asking: do you therefore define all factory
repos as containing post pre-release software? or just the KDE factory?

--
platinum

[john_hudson]

You could of course define pre-release software as software which will be in 11.2 but for which there is no 11.1 version - that would of course be a moving target until feature freeze.

john hudson wrote:
> You could of course define pre-release software as software which will
> be in 11.2 but for which there is no 11.1 version - that would of course
> be a moving target until feature freeze.

personally, i think it better to remove the 'moving target' problem by
defining "pre-release softwar"e as any software not released in the
current supported versions (currently, those are 10.3, 11.0 & 11.1)..

--
platinum

[consused]

Originally Posted by caf4926

We don't need to be overly pedantic about this. If a user comes here with a running 11.1 install, he doesn't expect unhelpful argumentation about such matters. I'm running 4.3.1 of kde, but I don't consider it a pre-release beta OS because of that. kde4.3.1 is a stable release from kde and the factory repo I use is, and I quote: KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSUSE_11.1/

It could be argued that repo is similar to a backport repo. If you agree, would you then classify the current backport repos, for 11.1 kde or gnome, as either pre-release or (semi-)officially supported for the current release?

[caf4926]

Originally Posted by platinum

i'm not fighting, just asking: do you therefore define all factory
repos as containing post pre-release software? or just the KDE factory?

--
platinum

Define: Post pre-release
Is it like Post pre-natal?

[consused]

Originally Posted by john_hudson

You could of course define pre-release software as software which will be in 11.2 but for which there is no 11.1 version - that would of course be a moving target until feature freeze.

You could, but as said you create a moving target. Also the user seeking help, probably under some stress, wouldn't be thinking of "feature freeze" on say 11.2, when he is running 11.1.

I see a way through by approaching the original question from a different viewpoint i.e. the user running the current release of openSUSE.

openSUSE provides many repos specifically for 11.1, and publishes their details on the wiki, presumably in the expectation that they will be used for that purpose. Even the "official" Oss and Non-Oss repos have been known to contain beta software, but it is released by openSUSE for users. Those packages are usuaully dealt with as released, and dealt with in the Applications section of the forum. I see no fundamental difference with any of the repos published for the 11.1 release, from the users' viewpoint.

Anything outside of those wiki-published 11.1 repos, can be dealt with as pre-release e.g. 11.2. The key is the repo source, and users can draw a clear line, by reference to the wiki. Of course the forum is then free to deal in any thread with expectations involving "at own risk" as is often pointed out for wiki-published repos.

I therefore propose this approach with the necessary changes to the forum section headers e.g Pre-Release should redefine on Milestones and perhaps remove old references to alpha/beta/rc S/W. This approach has the benefit of aligning the forum with the wiki.