OpenOffice Not properly showing Word Documents.

I came across an issue today with OpenOffice 2.3.0.1.2 not properly showing
paragraph numbers in a word document I was looking at.

In Word, the documents were originally numbered 1.1, 1.2, etc. They were
changed to read 1.01, 1.02, etc. When I look at the document in Word, the
numnbers are 1.01, 1.02.....as they should be.

In OO, the documents are numbered 1.1, 1.2, etc. In other words, the changes
never made it to OO, even though the changes were made.

This is contract language so it's vital to me that the paragraph numbers not
be changed by OO.

Any suggestions?

I don't seem to be able to do a bugzilla query to see if anyone else has
this problem, so I don't knoww if it's been previously discovered.

I'm using OpenSuse 10.3.
--
Robert Smits CEP 525G Nanaimo, Duncan & District Labour Council
Ph 250-753-0201 Fax 250-753-2954 Email labour@telus.net

Robert Smits wrote:

> I came across an issue today with OpenOffice 2.3.0.1.2 not properly
> showing paragraph numbers in a word document I was looking at.
>
> In Word, the documents were originally numbered 1.1, 1.2, etc. They were
> changed to read 1.01, 1.02, etc. When I look at the document in Word, the
> numnbers are 1.01, 1.02.....as they should be.
>
> In OO, the documents are numbered 1.1, 1.2, etc. In other words, the
> changes never made it to OO, even though the changes were made.
>
> This is contract language so it's vital to me that the paragraph numbers
> not be changed by OO.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> I don't seem to be able to do a bugzilla query to see if anyone else has
> this problem, so I don't knoww if it's been previously discovered.
>
> I'm using OpenSuse 10.3.


Let me add one more thing....the paragraph numbers have a grey box around
them in OO that doesn't appear in Word. I'd attach a sample but don't think
it will get through the list serve, but I'd be glad to email it.
--
Robert Smits CEP 525G Nanaimo, Duncan & District Labour Council
Ph 250-753-0201 Fax 250-753-2954 Email labour@telus.net

Robert Smits wrote:

>> This is contract language so it's vital to me that the paragraph numbers
>> not be changed by OO.
>>
>> Any suggestions?

Use only 1 program for your documents: Word or OOo. The paragraph numbering
in Word does not work well anyway (at least in older versions). I used to
save a document with paragraphs numbered and then when opened again the
paragraphs were renumbered. A complete pain in the neck.
What I do now is to use only OOo and print the final versions as PDF. I have
far less problems than with Word.

> Let me add one more thing....the paragraph numbers have a grey box around
> them in OO that doesn't appear in Word.

Yes, that is a known feature/bug.
It will not come out printed. It will not appear in a pdf either.

-G-

-G- wrote:

> Robert Smits wrote:
>
>>> This is contract language so it's vital to me that the paragraph numbers
>>> not be changed by OO.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>
> Use only 1 program for your documents: Word or OOo. The paragraph
> numbering in Word does not work well anyway (at least in older versions).
> I used to save a document with paragraphs numbered and then when opened
> again the paragraphs were renumbered. A complete pain in the neck.
> What I do now is to use only OOo and print the final versions as PDF. I
> have far less problems than with Word.

Yes, but I have no control over what others use to create documents. I need
OO to faithfully reproduce what is in the original doument.

>> Let me add one more thing....the paragraph numbers have a grey box around
>> them in OO that doesn't appear in Word.
>
> Yes, that is a known feature/bug.
> It will not come out printed. It will not appear in a pdf either.

No, it doesn't appear, but it is indicative of a bug.

Robert Smits wrote:

> -G- wrote:
>
>> Robert Smits wrote:
>>
>>>> This is contract language so it's vital to me that the paragraph
>>>> numbers not be changed by OO.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Use only 1 program for your documents: Word or OOo. The paragraph
>> numbering in Word does not work well anyway (at least in older versions).
>> I used to save a document with paragraphs numbered and then when opened
>> again the paragraphs were renumbered. A complete pain in the neck.
>> What I do now is to use only OOo and print the final versions as PDF. I
>> have far less problems than with Word.
>
> Yes, but I have no control over what others use to create documents. I
> need OO to faithfully reproduce what is in the original doument.
>

But that is good nearly impossible. Even Word does not render all versions
of Word documents "faithfully." In this case, as in designing web pages
and rough-in construction the rule should be "close is good enough."


>>> Let me add one more thing....the paragraph numbers have a grey box
>>> around them in OO that doesn't appear in Word.
>>
>> Yes, that is a known feature/bug.
>> It will not come out printed. It will not appear in a pdf either.
>
> No, it doesn't appear, but it is indicative of a bug.

Why?

--
Later,
Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages

Robert Smits wrote:
> Yes, but I have no control over what others use to create documents. I
> need OO to faithfully reproduce what is in the original doument.

Then perhaps OOo is not what you need. If you have complex documents, think
about using crossover office and buying MSOffice if you want identical
files for other MS users (with the same version you are using, of course!).

Note that the many other MSOffice versions do not reproduce faithfully the
same document. So really this is not a problem of OOo, it is a MS one.

>> Yes, that is a known feature/bug.
>> It will not come out printed. It will not appear in a pdf either.
>
> No, it doesn't appear, but it is indicative of a bug.

It is displaying the fields where the objects are set automatically and the
fields display cannot be switched off. I am sure this will be sorted
quickly in a future version, but it is hardly an important one, only
aesthetic.


Cheers,

-G-

-G- wrote:

> Robert Smits wrote:
>> Yes, but I have no control over what others use to create documents. I
>> need OO to faithfully reproduce what is in the original doument.
>
> Then perhaps OOo is not what you need. If you have complex documents,
> think about using crossover office and buying MSOffice if you want
> identical files for other MS users (with the same version you are using,
> of course!).

I don't use Microsoft Word, I use Open Office. Because I need to be able to
occasionally open files sent me by other people, I need the Open Office
facility of reading Word files. A 30 page document with numbered paragraphs
is hardly a complex document.

> Note that the many other MSOffice versions do not reproduce faithfully the
> same document. So really this is not a problem of OOo, it is a MS one.

Um, no it's not. I checked the document with someone else's Word 2000 and it
displays the correct paragraph numbers. This isn't a problem with various
versions of Word, it's that Open Office is not correctly displaying a Word
document. If Open Office can't correctly read a Word document it removes
much of the utility of Open Office.

I know that Word is not always consistent from version to version, but Word
2000 format should be well understood by this time.

>
>>> Yes, that is a known feature/bug.
>>> It will not come out printed. It will not appear in a pdf either.
>>
>> No, it doesn't appear, but it is indicative of a bug.
>
> It is displaying the fields where the objects are set automatically and
> the fields display cannot be switched off. I am sure this will be sorted
> quickly in a future version, but it is hardly an important one, only
> aesthetic.

Yes, I agree. I mentioned it only in case it had something to do with the
problem.

Darrell Stec wrote:

> Robert Smits wrote:
>
>> -G- wrote:
>>
>>> Robert Smits wrote:
>>>
>>>>> This is contract language so it's vital to me that the paragraph
>>>>> numbers not be changed by OO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Use only 1 program for your documents: Word or OOo. The paragraph
>>> numbering in Word does not work well anyway (at least in older
>>> versions). I used to save a document with paragraphs numbered and then
>>> when opened again the paragraphs were renumbered. A complete pain in the
>>> neck. What I do now is to use only OOo and print the final versions as
>>> PDF. I have far less problems than with Word.

When I have to deal with documents from other people I have no control over
what program or version they use, so your suggestion is impractical. I do
use OO exclusively at work, and I'd like to continue doing so.

>> Yes, but I have no control over what others use to create documents. I
>> need OO to faithfully reproduce what is in the original doument.
>>
>
> But that is good nearly impossible. Even Word does not render all
> versions of Word documents "faithfully." In this case, as in designing
> web pages and rough-in construction the rule should be "close is good
> enough."

This is not a case of some complex graphic not rendering properly, or
something new added in Office XP or later not working. This is a simple
case of paragraph numbering not working correctly. I don't think we can
really afford to rule out using OO in any situation where you might
exchange a contract with someone.

>>>> Let me add one more thing....the paragraph numbers have a grey box
>>>> around them in OO that doesn't appear in Word.
>>>
>>> Yes, that is a known feature/bug.
>>> It will not come out printed. It will not appear in a pdf either.
>>
>> No, it doesn't appear, but it is indicative of a bug.
>
> Why?

Because it's not meant to appear, and previous versions didn't do it,
either. It's not all that serious, but it does reflect on OO's image as a
ready for prime time replacement for other word processors, at least in
part because it's so visible.

I have submitted the bug as Issue 83524 to Open Office.

Robert Smits wrote:

> Darrell Stec wrote:
>
>> Robert Smits wrote:
>>
>>> -G- wrote:
>>>
>>>> Robert Smits wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> This is contract language so it's vital to me that the paragraph
>>>>>> numbers not be changed by OO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>
>>>> Use only 1 program for your documents: Word or OOo. The paragraph
>>>> numbering in Word does not work well anyway (at least in older
>>>> versions). I used to save a document with paragraphs numbered and then
>>>> when opened again the paragraphs were renumbered. A complete pain in
>>>> the neck. What I do now is to use only OOo and print the final versions
>>>> as PDF. I have far less problems than with Word.
>
> When I have to deal with documents from other people I have no control
> over what program or version they use, so your suggestion is impractical.
> I do use OO exclusively at work, and I'd like to continue doing so.
>

What you don't seem to understand (and it has been explained to you by
several people now) is that even if you were to have Microsoft Office and
open a MS Word document, you still might not get the same rendering as the
person who sent it. Not all versions of Word, or Access, or Excel render
the same document the same way from one version to the next.

What makes you think that if Microsoft itself cannot render documents the
same from one version to another than OpenOffice can?

The only way for you to gain that control is to have every version of
Microsoft Word from 1.0 to the present for Word Documents, and I doubt
Windows will let you do that anyway as its registry would be totally
confused.



>>> Yes, but I have no control over what others use to create documents. I
>>> need OO to faithfully reproduce what is in the original doument.
>>>
>>
>> But that is good nearly impossible. Even Word does not render all
>> versions of Word documents "faithfully." In this case, as in designing
>> web pages and rough-in construction the rule should be "close is good
>> enough."
>
> This is not a case of some complex graphic not rendering properly, or
> something new added in Office XP or later not working. This is a simple
> case of paragraph numbering not working correctly. I don't think we can
> really afford to rule out using OO in any situation where you might
> exchange a contract with someone.
>


You are absolutely right. You can't afford to rule out using OO in any
situation. What you must afford is accepting that even were you to use
Microsoft Word, unless you use exactly the same version that the document
was created on, you might not get the same rendering. What you must afford
is accepting the close is good enough.

If you are talking about missing words or letters or periods or commas and
are dealing with complex legal documents then you have a legitimate
concern. If the layout however is slightly different and it upsets you,
the psychological word for that condition is anal retentive.

You are making too much ado about nothing.

>>>>> Let me add one more thing....the paragraph numbers have a grey box
>>>>> around them in OO that doesn't appear in Word.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that is a known feature/bug.
>>>> It will not come out printed. It will not appear in a pdf either.
>>>
>>> No, it doesn't appear, but it is indicative of a bug.
>>
>> Why?
>
> Because it's not meant to appear, and previous versions didn't do it,
> either. It's not all that serious, but it does reflect on OO's image as a
> ready for prime time replacement for other word processors, at least in
> part because it's so visible.
>

To Whom is it visibile? Certainly not the original document writer. And
certainly not on any printed media that either you, the original author, or
the rest of the universe sees. You are simply being anal about a non
issue. It takes not an iota away from the meaning of any document and that
is the purpose of any, and in fact all, documents -- the meaning.

> I have submitted the bug as Issue 83524 to Open Office.

You can hold your breath if you wish, but I doubt two other people in the
universe care about this non issue.

--
Later,
Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages

On 11/11/07 Darrell Stec wrote:
> the psychological word for that condition is anal retentive.

We appreciate your technical contribution here, but please do not use
even mildly insulting or potentially insulting language in Novell's
forums. It doesn't help anyone and does not help convince the other to
your point of view. Thank you.
--
Andrew C Taubman
Novell Support Forums Volunteer SysOp
http://support.novell.com/forums
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